Just a quick question to the guildleaders/raidleaders out there...

How have you decided to handle Kharazan raiding?

As many guilds we're about 35-40 people and want to put Kharazan on an effective farm asap. Handling the encounters isnt the problem, handling loot and the runs is.

My thesis has been to split the guild in two even parts. Design a SIMPLE dkp system (Along the lines of 1p per boss downed, either bidding of flat 5p cost for all items) and let the 2 parts sort it.

Problems would of course arise if 1 side lacked for example healers one week... How would points be distributed to the "guests" from other teams. Tho i think this is manageble.

My biggest concern is ofc the "Us vs Them" feeling that might arise. If one team clears faster, gets better loot or so. How will this affect people?

OBS: This debate might be obselete in some regards... As i see it Kharazan is just the UBRS/ZG of Outlands, and i guess we'll be past it soon enough. But Blizzard might decide to throw more of these 10-mans on us ahead, and i'd like a working system in place to handle it.

So, i'd like some input from others who have gone thrue this.

We're running into this problem as well, and as officers have just started thinking about how to handle it (slackers!). Not just for Kharazan but for the heroics as well. They very well might be the ZG's of Outland, but I always prefer scheduled raids to just signing on and doing a guild LFM. We use Guild Event Manager and I'm thinking of just creating a no-limit signup for each night. Then say we get 20 people signed up, the officers go through and assign 4 "teams" which are first come first serve but class need has priority. Not the most elegant, but will probbaly do for now. I'd really love to put together a 10 man super-star team and raid exclusively with them, but that ain't happening, for a few reasons.

We've run into the same problem and decided not to use DKP for Kara and definatly not for Heroics.

It all boils down to the 'who gets to be part of the ATeam/BTeam scenario.' This is bad enough as it is, but when you add points into the mix, it gets that much worse when the A Team gets to Prince and B Team is wiping on Theater Event.
Also as has been pointed out, not all the loot is that great in Kara, we are saving DKP for the 25 mans and just rolling for now; makes it easier on all of us.

I don't particularly see a need for DKP in a 10 man instance with 9 classes allowed. There aren't going to be very many conflicts of interest in progression gear. The conflicts of interest would come with getting into the raid. Early going I would rather have the best setup of people so that they all learn exactly how to go through the whole thing then split them up and integrate more people into 2 runs. I would pretty much hold off on any loot system for 25 mans as the 10 man really should just take care of itself for the most part.

Given that we know Tier 4 drops from Gruul’s Lair (and possibly Magtheridon too), do people find it slightly illogical to roll in Karazhan but use DKP in those instances? And even if it is illogical, is it necessarily problematic? How are guilds that use upgrade systems and the like thinking of integrating Karazhan loot, given that it is roughly identical in quality to several 25-man bosses? This is the only quandary I have with regards to running Karazhan, and the only thing from stopping me saying “ok fuck it we’ll just roll for good” (which is what our 70s have been doing up until now).

^^ We are doing loot council for tier 4 drops, and roll for everything else in Kharazan. The loot council will likely be based on the DKP from Gruul/Mag, but won't actually be subtracted, etc.

Honestly, if your guild members aren't pricks you can use a combination of officer guidance and class discussion to sort out loot (e.g. "Alright, you get the first Tier 4 shoulders and gloves, I get leggings and boots." sort of thing). If problems arise in the class, an officer makes the final decision.

With group size being much smaller, including 25 man raids, it's not that hard for people to be courteous.

*sigh* I may be overestimating people again though.

We've rolled on all karazhan loot drops so far, with a "cross that bridge when we come to it" mentality towards to the 25mans (though I imagine we will stay with a simple zero-sum with subbing points).

In terms of administering the raids, so far it's just been whichever 70s are up for it (a surprising number of which have been more content to farm rep for heroics/keys/attunements). We generally have around 15 or so at raid start, and we simply take the best raid makeup, rotated to give as many people as possible experience of the place.

I think the biggest issue with Karazhan is not getting 10 people to go, it's having enough individuals that are capable of leading an efficient, drama-free, effective raid. That, more than anything else, I think is the biggest challenge. For a long time now the responsibilities of coordinating the raid have often fallen on the shoulders of precious few, so much so that the shift to suddenly requiring multiple equally coordinated operations at the same time can be a rocky transition.

We're planning on using DKP, with the awareness that we might need to have a different pool for the 25 mans. As far as signups go, we'll have one big bulk signup, and the raid leaders will figure out who's going on which Karazhan raid when we have 20+ signups. We're a new raiding group and I'm pretty sure that shuffling people around is important for combating the "group A, group not as good" mentality.

Like Gurg said, it's usually not an issue; on our run, it was pretty much "Anyone want it? Well, fucking take it anyway, you might as well have some shadow gear". With the wider class distro and the higher epics:people ratio (2 epics per boss with 10 people is much, much higher than 3-4 epics over 40 people), it's not really been a problem (there was one belt I probably should have taken, in retrospect, that went to a priest for their shadow set. It'll drop again.)

We just FFA rolled, people weren't greedy and had some basic priorities.

Btw Netherspite was awesome! None of us had seen/known about Netherspite before and that was really fun to figure out. Got him to 10% 4th try but then our OT dced and trash re spawned =(