LadyVex

I haven't really delved much into the instances or knowledge of, but I've looked at the flow chart and it just seems to criss cross all over the place. The amount of keys it seems I have to collect is mind boggling, even though I realize in another few weeks it won't be.

BTW, how many of the instances are 10 man and how many 25? I had thought and heard Vashj/Kael were 25, as well as the Black Citadel and of course, Hyjal, but I had thought most everything else was 10 mans. Correct or incorrect?

 

Cryect

Karazhan is the only 10 man content added by TBC

I need to do something useless.

 

• Anarkii

Karazhan is the only 10-man at the moment. Gruul, Magtherion, Vashj(Serpentshrine Cavern), Kael(Tempest Keep: The Eye), Black Citadel and Hyjal are 25mans.

 

Kink

And there is really no need to worry about Kazzak.

Yes he might be a 40man encounter but what will stop you from just teaming up with another guild?

I would rather have less hassle for EVERY other raid instance, than be able to down that one boss within guild.

There is light at the end of the tunnel.
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.

 

Malan

Logistics, schedules, looting issues, timing of the spawn being up, just to name a few.
This just doesn't make sense that they tell people that 40 man raids are done and then include an outdoor boss tuned for 40.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Ayr

Perhaps he is not tuned for 40. He might be tuned for 25 well geared man raids, but he can be zerged by 40 man poorly geared raids.

 

• Snowy

I was about to say the same thing. Gear will get better and better, and perhaps he is indeed tuned for a 25 man raid, and a distant objective for some quest. And right now, we are definitely poorly geared compared to where we'll be anywhere from 6 to 12 months from now.

Paladin: Pyla
Mage: Pylah

 

Kink

Depends on the loot he drops. The fact that the old kazzak had a hard limit on the number of players who could engage him at once makes it seem that the new kazzak has been tuned for 40people as they both have similar abilities.

And it would be easy to team up with another guild. I don't think any of the issues mentioned above are really a factor. I have killed every world dragon and azuregos multiple times with cross guild groups. I don;t see Kazzak being any different. We just may need to gear up a bit more though =).

There is light at the end of the tunnel.
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.

 

Snowcrasher

Does anyone have any knowledge or guidance as to the order to best attempt instances in Heroic mode (easiest to hardest etc.)?

Aside: I'm on the US Nazjatar server but that doesn't appear as a valid option under profiles.

 

wikberget

According to Furor Hyjal and Black Tempel drops tier 6, TK and SC tier 5 and tier 4 is dropped in Karazhan, Gruul's Lair and Magtheridons Lair.

PS. There are a few realms missing from the realm list in the profile settings. :)

 

◊ Praetorian

Sorry, I need to add them. I'll try to get to it in the next day or so.

 

◊ Cathela

The impression I got was that the heroics would follow the same difficulty progression as their non-heroic counterparts, with Ramparts being easiest and stuff like Arcatraz/Black Morass being the hard end.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

torrent495

Karazhan is the only 10-man raid dungeon, but it's a little deceptive, because it's much, much bigger than any of the 25-man dungeons. Add up all the 25-man bosses through the end of Tier 5 (Magth, Kazzak, Doomwalker, Gruul's Lair, TK25, and Coilfang25), and it comes out to around 13 total. But Karazhan by itself has 12 boss encounters.

The equivalence changes somewhat when the Tier 6 raid dungeons Black Temple and CoT Hyjal come out; but remember the 10-man Zul'Aman (presumably the next step up from Karazhan) is slated for release soon as well. So far, I think Blizzard's done a pretty good job of balancing the amount of 25-man vs. 10-man vs. 5-man content in the expansion.

 

• Snowy

Think of Karazhan (and Zul'Aman, when it comes outs) as the old ZG/AQ20. Mag/Gruul is roughly equivalent to the old Onyxia, albiet might be a bit harder. Vashj/Kael the old MC/BWL. Hyjal/BT would be like old AQ40/Naxx. Not so much talking in absolute difficulty, but in the progression sense.

Due to the lengthy keying requirements, it might be a really long time before you ever see organized pugs running some of the 25 mans, but certainly not out of the question for Karazhan for example, once all the strats become well known and everyone well-geared from the 5 mans.

Paladin: Pyla
Mage: Pylah

 

Digo

This is accurate. We got him to 60% after just a few pulls with 25 people who hadn't really spent much time gearing up. You could do him with 40 now, or gear up and do him with 25. He has about 1.2 million HP and goes berserk after like 60 seconds, so you need about 20k raid DPS (we were hitting 13k on Patchwerk at level 60, so at 70 I don't think it's too difficult) to down him -- unless there's something I'm missing. I know Afterlife and DnT killed him, so one of their guys can speak to this better, I'm sure.

 

Brodda Thep

You guys do know that Kazzak only berserks for about 10 seconds right? Then he goes back to normal mode.

Survive the berserk and kill him in 2 minutes. The only really hard thing about doing that is preventing explosions from running low on mana then detonating your raid for 5k with a knockback. But yes, 40 people make this much easier as we killed him about 3 seconds after he stopped being berserk. I do think he is doable by 25 right now though if you can handle the mana drains.

 

Scorpicore

we had a full 40 men raid teamed up with another guild and killed him on thursday, its possible to do it with less but will need better gear for it, atm Kazzak is just one retarded DPS-as-much-as-you-can-squeeze-out-in-1-minute-before-he-goes-supreme fight

 

Banelion

How do you guys deal with loot? Considering only one raid will get it, and you can't exactly rotate a raid boss, as he's open to everyone.

[18:33] <FalkFalkFalk> did you know that if you zone into Hyjal with both Warglaives of Azzinoth
[18:33] <FalkFalkFalk> Furion Stormrage appears and says "Where did you get that? Did HE send you?"
[18:33] <FalkFalkFalk> optional Mt Hyjal boss
---
[17:59] <JamesVZ> i jerk off to my TPS during evocate

 

Quixotic

Indeed, we killed him a few days ago with 29 70's and a 66 priest and 68 rogue. You can out last the berzerk relatively easily.

 

Elerion

As far as I can tell, Heroic instance difficulty is more about boss mechanics versus group setup than anything. See the discussion in the other thread about Omor for details. With 4 melees and a single healer, we needed a significant amount of luck to win. With a stacked group of tank, a shadow priest and 3 other ranged dps, it would have been as easy as on Normal. I'm sure there are fights that act similarly towards other group setups.

A "progression path" for the heroic 5-mans is probably not going to be very reliable, since it will rely heavily on your group setup.

 

◊ Bekah

On greens for a while my guild partnered with another guild on server. Probably 3+ months. Because we had a pool of 20-60 people online at all times we were able to make sure that other guilds never really had a reliable chance to see the spawn, much less get attempts in or learn the encounters.

While the coop was valid, we had a no competition agreement. We didn't solo any greens, they didn't solo any greens... unless one of the guilds refused to march immediately on the spawn. Happened mostly during raid times since we started a little bit earlier and they finished a bit later, or when there were less than 5-6 of the other guild online.

Why keep it going?
Soloing a green would basically have meant that the coop was off and started back up one of the most vicious rivalries on server. Nightwind couldn't afford any bad publicity (they already had some troubles) and we couldn't afford to let Nightwind take a higher road as a lot of our recruitment was balanced on the argument that we were a more pr friendly guild than NW. Basically we agreed to put ourselves in each others power for the nature resistance. Once NW dissolved it pretty much cemented our progression- we'd had control of the greens for so long. Without that kind of a stranglehold on a resource (NR), I doubt the current world bosses will be willingly shared.

How'd we split loot?
We rotated loot. We got one drop, they got one drop. One guild got first pick, the other guild got second pick + ring + skinning rights. Originally it was back and forth based on whichever boss was killed first, but once the other guild realized we might have been a tad bit manipulative since our guild lead the raids and got to call which dragon was first.... >.> They renegotiated and for a month or so we went back and forth on each individual dragon. (Nightwind got the last Emeriss, this is our Emeriss).

What broke it up?
The agreement fizzled when Nightwind started having major progression problems in mid-AQ and we were a strong enough guild in our own right to control the spawns. Other guilds tried to start up a new agreement when NW dissolved, but at that point it just wasn't in our best interests (And hadn't really been for about a month of the origional coop). =P

Basically, if one guild is strong enough and willing to control the spawns, there's no chance for a shared spawn. If NO guild is capable of controlling the spawn- then you'll see many coops form up just to get the loot.

 

mavfin

Slight derail, but mentioning the greens made me laugh. On my Horde server, I was leveling a druid toward 60 to add to my stable, and there was Ysondre sitting in Feralas as I flew by, and had been for 3 days :P

(end derail)

 

Scorpicore

since we teamed up with another guild the loot was split (had 2 drops only so no drama), had a /random 2 roll which guild could get to choose first which item they want for their member and those where auctioned via dkp

 

Prim

Are you sure it's friendly, and not honored?

I'm at friendly, but can't pick up the quest yet.

 

Banelion

Sorry but how do two Seperate raids, loot the same boss? As far as I see it we were talking about over 40 people, correct me if I am wrong.

[18:33] <FalkFalkFalk> did you know that if you zone into Hyjal with both Warglaives of Azzinoth
[18:33] <FalkFalkFalk> Furion Stormrage appears and says "Where did you get that? Did HE send you?"
[18:33] <FalkFalkFalk> optional Mt Hyjal boss
---
[17:59] <JamesVZ> i jerk off to my TPS during evocate