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Old 02/02/07, 6:50 AM   #31
Ayr
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Al'Akir (EU)
Perhaps he is not tuned for 40. He might be tuned for 25 well geared man raids, but he can be zerged by 40 man poorly geared raids.

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Old 02/02/07, 6:58 AM   #32
• Snowy
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Mal'Ganis
I was about to say the same thing. Gear will get better and better, and perhaps he is indeed tuned for a 25 man raid, and a distant objective for some quest. And right now, we are definitely poorly geared compared to where we'll be anywhere from 6 to 12 months from now.

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Old 02/02/07, 7:04 AM   #33
Kink
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Tauren Druid
 
Outland (EU)
Depends on the loot he drops. The fact that the old kazzak had a hard limit on the number of players who could engage him at once makes it seem that the new kazzak has been tuned for 40people as they both have similar abilities.

And it would be easy to team up with another guild. I don't think any of the issues mentioned above are really a factor. I have killed every world dragon and azuregos multiple times with cross guild groups. I don;t see Kazzak being any different. We just may need to gear up a bit more though =).

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Old 02/02/07, 3:00 PM   #34
Snowcrasher
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Does anyone have any knowledge or guidance as to the order to best attempt instances in Heroic mode (easiest to hardest etc.)?

Aside: I'm on the US Nazjatar server but that doesn't appear as a valid option under profiles.

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Old 02/02/07, 6:03 PM   #35
wikberget
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According to Furor Hyjal and Black Tempel drops tier 6, TK and SC tier 5 and tier 4 is dropped in Karazhan, Gruul's Lair and Magtheridons Lair.

PS. There are a few realms missing from the realm list in the profile settings. :)

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Old 02/02/07, 6:10 PM   #36
♦ Praetorian
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Originally Posted by wikberget
According to Furor Hyjal and Black Tempel drops tier 6, TK and SC tier 5 and tier 4 is dropped in Karazhan, Gruul's Lair and Magtheridons Lair.

PS. There are a few realms missing from the realm list in the profile settings. :)
Sorry, I need to add them. I'll try to get to it in the next day or so.

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Old 02/03/07, 6:09 AM   #37
Cathela
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Originally Posted by Snowcrasher
Does anyone have any knowledge or guidance as to the order to best attempt instances in Heroic mode (easiest to hardest etc.)?
The impression I got was that the heroics would follow the same difficulty progression as their non-heroic counterparts, with Ramparts being easiest and stuff like Arcatraz/Black Morass being the hard end.

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Old 02/03/07, 12:40 PM   #38
torrent495
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Originally Posted by LadyVex
BTW, how many of the instances are 10 man and how many 25? I had thought and heard Vashj/Kael were 25, as well as the Black Citadel and of course, Hyjal, but I had thought most everything else was 10 mans. Correct or incorrect?
Karazhan is the only 10-man raid dungeon, but it's a little deceptive, because it's much, much bigger than any of the 25-man dungeons. Add up all the 25-man bosses through the end of Tier 5 (Magth, Kazzak, Doomwalker, Gruul's Lair, TK25, and Coilfang25), and it comes out to around 13 total. But Karazhan by itself has 12 boss encounters.

The equivalence changes somewhat when the Tier 6 raid dungeons Black Temple and CoT Hyjal come out; but remember the 10-man Zul'Aman (presumably the next step up from Karazhan) is slated for release soon as well. So far, I think Blizzard's done a pretty good job of balancing the amount of 25-man vs. 10-man vs. 5-man content in the expansion.

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Old 02/03/07, 2:20 PM   #39
• Snowy
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Mal'Ganis
Think of Karazhan (and Zul'Aman, when it comes outs) as the old ZG/AQ20. Mag/Gruul is roughly equivalent to the old Onyxia, albiet might be a bit harder. Vashj/Kael the old MC/BWL. Hyjal/BT would be like old AQ40/Naxx. Not so much talking in absolute difficulty, but in the progression sense.

Due to the lengthy keying requirements, it might be a really long time before you ever see organized pugs running some of the 25 mans, but certainly not out of the question for Karazhan for example, once all the strats become well known and everyone well-geared from the 5 mans.

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Old 02/03/07, 2:35 PM   #40
Digo
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Hyjal
Originally Posted by Ayr
Perhaps he is not tuned for 40. He might be tuned for 25 well geared man raids, but he can be zerged by 40 man poorly geared raids.
This is accurate. We got him to 60% after just a few pulls with 25 people who hadn't really spent much time gearing up. You could do him with 40 now, or gear up and do him with 25. He has about 1.2 million HP and goes berserk after like 60 seconds, so you need about 20k raid DPS (we were hitting 13k on Patchwerk at level 60, so at 70 I don't think it's too difficult) to down him -- unless there's something I'm missing. I know Afterlife and DnT killed him, so one of their guys can speak to this better, I'm sure.

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Old 02/03/07, 3:00 PM   #41
Brodda Thep
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You guys do know that Kazzak only berserks for about 10 seconds right? Then he goes back to normal mode.

Survive the berserk and kill him in 2 minutes. The only really hard thing about doing that is preventing explosions from running low on mana then detonating your raid for 5k with a knockback. But yes, 40 people make this much easier as we killed him about 3 seconds after he stopped being berserk. I do think he is doable by 25 right now though if you can handle the mana drains.

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Old 02/03/07, 4:56 PM   #42
Scorpicore
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Kazzak (EU)
Originally Posted by Malan
So I'm sure everyone heard that Doom Lord Kazzak has gone down a couple times now - in one case to a 40 man raid. Now, is that encounter tuned for 25 man or 40 man raids? If tuned for 40 man, all these guilds that downsized will face problems. If tuned for 25 man the encounter becomes trivial. Then again, how do you prevent a 40 man raid from going there?
we had a full 40 men raid teamed up with another guild and killed him on thursday, its possible to do it with less but will need better gear for it, atm Kazzak is just one retarded DPS-as-much-as-you-can-squeeze-out-in-1-minute-before-he-goes-supreme fight

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Old 02/03/07, 8:31 PM   #43
Banelion
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Defias Brotherhood (EU)
Originally Posted by Scorpicore
Originally Posted by Malan
So I'm sure everyone heard that Doom Lord Kazzak has gone down a couple times now - in one case to a 40 man raid. Now, is that encounter tuned for 25 man or 40 man raids? If tuned for 40 man, all these guilds that downsized will face problems. If tuned for 25 man the encounter becomes trivial. Then again, how do you prevent a 40 man raid from going there?
we had a full 40 men raid teamed up with another guild and killed him on thursday, its possible to do it with less but will need better gear for it, atm Kazzak is just one retarded DPS-as-much-as-you-can-squeeze-out-in-1-minute-before-he-goes-supreme fight
How do you guys deal with loot? Considering only one raid will get it, and you can't exactly rotate a raid boss, as he's open to everyone.

[18:33] <FalkFalkFalk> did you know that if you zone into Hyjal with both Warglaives of Azzinoth
[18:33] <FalkFalkFalk> Furion Stormrage appears and says "Where did you get that? Did HE send you?"
[18:33] <FalkFalkFalk> optional Mt Hyjal boss
---
[17:59] <JamesVZ> i jerk off to my TPS during evocate

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Old 02/03/07, 9:00 PM   #44
Quixotic
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Kil'Jaeden
Originally Posted by Brodda Thep
You guys do know that Kazzak only berserks for about 10 seconds right? Then he goes back to normal mode.

Survive the berserk and kill him in 2 minutes. The only really hard thing about doing that is preventing explosions from running low on mana then detonating your raid for 5k with a knockback. But yes, 40 people make this much easier as we killed him about 3 seconds after he stopped being berserk. I do think he is doable by 25 right now though if you can handle the mana drains.
Indeed, we killed him a few days ago with 29 70's and a 66 priest and 68 rogue. You can out last the berzerk relatively easily.

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Old 02/04/07, 12:31 AM   #45
Elerion
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Worgen Priest
 
Ravencrest (EU)
As far as I can tell, Heroic instance difficulty is more about boss mechanics versus group setup than anything. See the discussion in the other thread about Omor for details. With 4 melees and a single healer, we needed a significant amount of luck to win. With a stacked group of tank, a shadow priest and 3 other ranged dps, it would have been as easy as on Normal. I'm sure there are fights that act similarly towards other group setups.

A "progression path" for the heroic 5-mans is probably not going to be very reliable, since it will rely heavily on your group setup.

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