Thank you for clarifying. I presumed they were not synergistic and this confirms it.

I realize it's an old thread, but I still don't see an answer. So, I'll take a stab.

My assumptions:
1) this is for my shaman... don't know other healing classes enough to help them
2) the first use is a marco which uses the trinket, and then casts HW Rank 2
3) I'm assuming the time I can hit every heal is 2s apart, given that HW2 is 1.5 second cast, + lag + human lag. I'm all about being the best healer I can be, but I'm not going to start making a /stopcast macro for this thing.
4) I'm assuming that my mana regen hits every 2 seconds starting at 2 seconds in
5) I'm assuming that every tick is 2/5 of the mana regen the trinket has built up

So, that gives me:
10 procs @ 8,17,25,34... up to 84 on the last second of the proc, or... 462 mana
HW2 costs 430 mana (45 * .95 from Tidal Focus * 10 casts), stacks Healing Way, is healing during that time, is likely critting at least once (so Ancestral Fort).

So, at best, you get 462 mana every 120 seconds, or 19.25 MP5, and at worst, if you discount what you're spending on the spell, you get 1.3 MP5.

The other option is to use HW1, as it costs less mana, still stacks Healing Way, and could still crit. However, the healing it does REALLY is worthless now, and since you could get 320 mana from just being outside the 5SR, could get a max of 613 mana back from using the trinket, and use 312 mana on casting, you basically break even to just sitting there, and the only benefit is possible AF procs and you don't have to refresh Healing Way. I'm going to rule this out, but there definitely is some benefit to AF (less damage taken is just as good as healing done) and having Healing Way up, though other Shaman in the group might also keep that up.

If I spam a down-ranked HW - which for some fights is reasonable - then I'd assume a proc every 2.5 seconds, and I would take out the macro (/use trinket, /cast HW rk 2). Then I'm getting back about 319 mana, or 13.3 MP5. In this case, I wouldn't discount what you spend on healing, because it's needed in these fights, as opposed to the artificial healing you're doing in the other fights.

Finally, if I'm stop-casting my max-rank heal, I bet I'm hitting one every 5 seconds or so. For this example, I'm going to assume I'd use the macro from above, where I tie my trinket use to HW1 so that I can get a quick, initial proc. So with one proc at 1 second in, and another proc every 5 seconds, that gives me 219 mana, or 9.1 MP5. Again, this one assumes I'm healing normally, so I wouldn't discount any of the mana I spend on healing.

So, that gives me these values (from best to worst):
19.5 MP5
13.3 MP5
9.1 MP5
1.3 MP5

Personally, I use 5 INT = 1 MP5 for calculating the worth of int. The reasons are:
1) 5 INT = 75 mana = 1 MP5 for 6M 15S
2) Add on Blessing of Kings
3) Add on the extra healing it does (shaman talent, not for everyone)
4) Add on the extra spell crit it gives
... and I think that's reasonable. So, the trinket is worth 8MP5 without the trigger. With it, I get:

27.5 MP5
21.3 MP5
17.1 MP5
9.3 MP5

Personally, I wouldn't use the 9.3 MP5 calculation because that assumes no benefit from the spamming of HW2, when it obviously has some. That would leave us with a total MP5 benefit from the trinket at 17.1 MP5 - 27.5 MP5, depending on the fight.

Someone want to tell me where I'm wrong?

This thread demonstrates pretty clearly that Blizzard needs to stop putting on-use effects on items that are definitively worse than what you'd get from a flat mp5 bonus. At least with a +healing bonus a trinket is situationally useful for burst healing. An ilvl 141 Rejuvenating Gem would have 132 +healing and 18 mp5, and everyone would use it because these on-use healing trinkets are so bad.

I don't know how the trinket is working for other healing classes, but I'm currently getting 2 buffs per heal. I don't know if this is intended or not (damage spells get 1 buff), but it's nice in the meantime.


Specifically trying to spam heal with this trinket gets me around 16~18 procs, which should yield somewhere around 500~ mana, or 24 mp5.


Looked at in this way, it's definitely an upgrade compared to my old mana regen trinket (Shard of the Scale), but as with most on-use healing trinkets, it's difficult to use properly.

Speaking of useful on-use healing trinkets, I really liked the L61 heal trinket from BF: -X mana on next spell (passive +heal) - which was very easy to use in a healing rotation. Trinkets like Pendant or the LC prayer book require you to accommodate the trinket for it to be effective.

They're not bad, they're just very hard to gauge the usefulness of. A Paladin would easily be able to judge the usefulness of one because they spam heals, but a Shaman does a lot more stop-cast healing, so it's hard.

It used to be 1 buff per, but it somehow got changed in the last patch and is being "fixed" in the 2.3 patch. It was in the patch notes last I checked.

It's actually a bug with Illumination. It used to have the same issue pre-2.1; it was fixed for 2.1, and then 2.2 broke it again so Paladins with Illumination get double procs.

The problem is more that the Pendant is designed in such a way as that it encourages spamming fast spells, and except for paladins, no one has any spell where they can do this and get good benefit from it.

It's a great pally trinket imo, but it just doesn't match up to most other trinkets. This doesn't mean all trinkets should be Rejuv Gem 2.0. While I'm sure most healers would love that, it takes away from the uniqueness of each trinket.

If that's the case, then one of our priests ironically has Illumination as well. Either way, I wish they would leave it as is.

As far as for a paladin, I mostly use it with LcPB and our talent to reduce mana cost of spells. This basically allows me to spam lower mana costed FoL's at max rank and regen more mana overall. I've actually seen my mana go up a bit while doing this.

That's a first I've heard of another class getting it. I know that as Paladin at least, the double effect only occurs if you have the Illumination talent. Perhaps the same issue also occurs with Inspiration?

I don't have illumination, so there goes that theory.

So some paladins don't get the double buff from the trinket? Could it be Healing Lights?

This reminds me of the old stopcasting mod pre-2.0 (the name eludes me at the moment, but imagine a quartz that wouldn't let you /stopcast till you were in the redzone if you mashed the button). I remember the author having some sort of issue with getting it to work for paladin heals because they behave differently from all other heals in the game.

For a shaman, the best way to do it is actually to use healing wave rank 1 with [Totem of the Maelstrom] equipped. With the totem, rank 1 costs you 0 mana (so you stay outside the 5 second rule while gaining the mp5 from the trinket proc), and with the 1 second casting time it's fairly easy to get one off each global cooldown to get the buff stacked as high as possible.

There is a hidden benefit in this trinket that most people miss; as of patch 2.2, when your mana regeneration value changes, you get a tick of the old value before the new value applies. In essence, this trinket procs a tick of regen on each cast during its duration, meaning that you acquire a 2 second regen tick every 1.5 seconds. What does this amount to? It amplifies your base regeneration for its duration. Some simple math follows:

Assume buffed (pre-trinket) MP5 value of 200. (Ticks every 2 seconds for 80 mana)

Pre-trinket regeneration over 20 seconds: 200*(20/5) = 800 Mana.

Assuming optimal spammage of the trinket and you reach the full 13 casts at 19.5 seconds (FoL spammers rejoice):

1.5 seconds, gain 80 mana and first proc (now 221 mp5, or 88.4 mana per tick)
3.0 seconds, gain 88.4 mana and second proc (now 242 mp5, or 96.8 mana per tick)
4.5 seconds, gain 96.8 mana and third proc (now 262 mp5, or 105.2 mana per tick)
....
19.5 seconds, gain 180.8 mana and thirteenth proc (now 473 mp5, or 189.2 mana per tick)
20.0 seconds, buff fades and gain 189.2 mana.

How does this add up? Base regen accounts for 80*13 = 1040 Mana, Proc regen accounts for 8.4*(0+1+2+...+12) = 655.2 Mana, and the final tick accounts for 189.2 Mana. One can also view it as 80*14 = 1120 ; 8.4*(0+1+2+...+13) = 764.4 to simplify calculations. Essentially, it adds 764.4 Mana plus 40% of your base regen for those twenty seconds, in this case (764.4 + 320) = 1084.4 Mana, on a 2 minute cooldown; divide by 24 (5 second ticks in 2 minutes) to obtain a value of 45.18 MP5. The correct formula to obtain your mana/5 value using this trinket in an optimal situation is as follows:

31.85 mp5 + (Base Mp5)/15

Now, as far as optimal trinket setup: As a paladin, I enjoy spamming an appropriate rank of FoL. An amazing combination is this trinket along with the Memento of Tyrande's 76 mana per 5 proc; use the Pendant when the Memento procs, and enjoy some insane regen.