GuildOx - Guild, Character and Loot Rankings - Page 3

Ukerric · 05/25/10, 7:47 AM

Originally Posted by Polar

If the same loot is dropping in both and the achievements will be common between 10m and 25m raids, does it still matter to split 10 and 25?

The question may be moot anyway.

For one, remember that the achievements will be common. There won't be a "Sulfurized - 10 man" for those who do 10-man Sulfuron Keep vs the 25-man one, there will be a "Sulfurized", period. On the same tag, you get the same loot, same achievements (already announced), and maybe even the same kill summaries (probable, given the above) : how will you be able to distinguish a 25-man kill from a 10-man one?

(disclaimer: the achievement name is, of course, completely my invention)

Belegûr · 05/25/10, 10:17 AM

I guess you'd easily distinguish by seing how many people have the achievement or how many got it at the same time. I think it's important to add some sort of visual feature so players can know whetehr the guild they're checking out is 10 or 25, but outright separating them seems pointless to me - not to mention it's precisely what Blizzard seems to be trying to steer away from.

Daraberry · 05/28/10, 2:45 PM

That's not quite true - if a person leaves the guild and you have not yet been excluded then they no longer count towards your total. The 'stict checker' page sometimes lags by a couple of days - it is purely cosmetic though.

So, we removed one of our members a few weeks ago for attendance reasons and I was expecting him to drop off our list that counts against our 10 man strict checker. After a couple of weeks he didn't drop off, and then after getting a new boss down with him gone, he still hasn't dropped off.

So, I was wondering if this is a bug or if this statement is really true

seqo · 05/30/10, 10:42 PM

We found it to be true.

A non-regular raider's alt pugged first wing 25ICC. We subsequently removed him, and he no longer appears against the Strict Checker - this is in the last fortnight.

Polar · 06/01/10, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Daraberry

So, we removed one of our members a few weeks ago for attendance reasons and I was expecting him to drop off our list that counts against our 10 man strict checker. After a couple of weeks he didn't drop off, and then after getting a new boss down with him gone, he still hasn't dropped off.

So, I was wondering if this is a bug or if this statement is really true

Try hitting the "update now" option and then give it 60 mins. This forces the strict checker to refresh.

Vulgrym · 06/02/10, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by Polar

Out of interest, what do people think about the need for 10m vs 25m progress rankings come Cataclysm? If the same loot is dropping in both and the achievements will be common between 10m and 25m raids, does it still matter to split 10 and 25?

It absolutely does matter.

Setting aside whether Blizzard will be successful with (or adhere to) their current plan of equalizing the difficulty of the encounters themselves, they've already acknowledged the organizational complexity of the 25M format by planning for a 'more loot per player' model as reward -- a very controversial preliminary decision to say the least (longest thread in their Archive by a mile: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements).

Nothing is etched in stone, yet. Frankly, I don't see how they equalize the difficulty of the encounters in the first place without dramatically lowering the bar on 25M Hard Mode versions, but we shall see.

Tinwhisker · 06/02/10, 3:11 PM

Originally Posted by Vulgrym

Nothing is etched in stone, yet.

That's true and not true. Blizzard is known for not posting anything until they're sure they're going to do it. That's not saying they won't change it in the future if/when it fails horribly but I'd put dollars to pesos that what they posted in that thread is what we'll see in the first tier of 4.0.

diemor · 06/13/10, 6:45 PM

I think that the idea of letting the first four bosses of 25 man be puggable by everyone kind of ruins the idea behind 10 man strict.
I enjoy this ranking system because I refuse to deal with 24 other people just to get the best loot or see the "real" content.
In my opinion, you could actually trim off some of the people who push 25 man content with the max people in order to get a higher strict ranking simply by dropping the number of people allowed to get Marrowgar from 7 to 6.

*shrug* just my 2c.

Really excited to see what kind of changes the revamping of raiding in Cata does especially with 10 man strict progression guilds.

Onyki · 06/15/10, 9:11 AM

Originally Posted by diemor

In my opinion, you could actually trim off some of the people who push 25 man content with the max people in order to get a higher strict ranking simply by dropping the number of people allowed to get Marrowgar from 7 to 6.
*shrug* just my 2c.

I think the opposite.
And to be honest I dont see the logic in putting so much power into Marrowgar (8/8 triggers actually) when any other tags are requiring 14/9.
Unless I'm missing something on how "triggers" are actually triggered ^^.

In a side way, maybe you could check how many times a player actually killed a specific bosses in 10 and 25 then trigger his raiding preference through an acceptable ratio.
For example, if someone killed marrowgar 20+ times in 10 normal/HM, and 1-3 times in 25normal, I dont feel this player is out of the "strict 10 rules".

Polar · 06/16/10, 12:40 AM

I am not planning to change the 10m strict system at this stage, mainly because it will no longer be required when Cataclysm is released (provided the Blizzard team stick to their current plans). I am the first to admit that the current system has some shortcomings - but there is no perfect solution given the limited info we can gleam from the wowarmory.

That being said, I am about to enable a GuildOx "10m Casual" ranking. Many guilds have slipped off the 10m strict charts but they would still like to see, roughly, how they would compete.

A sample of the new 10m Casual ranks can be seen at 10-man Progress - GuildOx - WoW Guild Progress, Character and Loot Rankings

How does it work?

It includes all guilds where their 10m world ranking is at least 5000 positions better than their 25m world ranking. All other guilds are excluded.

Will it replace 10m strict?

No, it is not designed to replace the 10m strict rankings. I do not plan to be offering banners or sigs for 10m casual, nor do I plan to list all achievements for the casual ranks. It serves as a very rough comparison for guilds that don't make the cut for 10m strict. In any case, it will also be obsolete when Cataclysm is released.

Polar · 06/29/10, 6:22 PM

A few people have contacted me regarding Halion and 10-man strict exclusion.

Yes, Halion 25 will exclude you from the 10-man strict rankings since it drops iLvl 271 gear (iLvl 284 in heroic).

thefool808 · 06/30/10, 9:03 AM

Originally Posted by Polar

A few people have contacted me regarding Halion and 10-man strict exclusion.

Yes, Halion 25 will exclude you from the 10-man strict rankings since it drops iLvl 271 gear (iLvl 284 in heroic).

While I agree that Halion 25 should exclude people from 10-man strict (since it is a 25 man raid), it can't simply be based on item level. Halion 25 regular and Halion 10 heroic both drop the same item level gear, so item level 271 gear is available to 10 man strict raiders.

Lord Loom · 06/30/10, 11:55 AM

Since GuildOx doesn't exclude people based on item level but based on achievements/boss-kill statistics, your point is moot. Whether 10H drops the same item level as 25N doesn't matter, it's different items (eg. 10-man raids won't drop higher level trinkets than 264 until Cataclysm) and you're not supposed to increase your trophy/badge/gear income by running 25s alongside of 10s.

Polar · 06/30/10, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Loom

Since GuildOx doesn't exclude people based on item level but based on achievements/boss-kill statistics, your point is moot. Whether 10H drops the same item level as 25N doesn't matter, it's different items (eg. 10-man raids won't drop higher level trinkets than 264 until Cataclysm) and you're not supposed to increase your trophy/badge/gear income by running 25s alongside of 10s.

Correct. It drops higher level gear than what you get in ICC 10H so it is excluded.

To explain a little further, the intent is that I don't want to be forcing 10m strict groups to run 25 man content just to remain competitive. If I were to allow Halion 25, then all of the 10m strict raiders would be forced to assemble Halion 25 groups to get the (better) gear to stay competitive - I don't want this to happen.

jlewy11 · 07/01/10, 9:33 AM

I do not see that Ruby Sanctum is a part of the Progression Rankings. If RS will trigger us on 10m strict, why would it not be considered progression? I don't think the fight is overly complicated but neither is the Lich King at this stage of ICC (25%). Could we please consider having Ruby Sanctum a part of progression ranking