[long time lurker... first time poster]

I have seen a lot mentioned about the limitations of the melee dps classes in Heroic Mode. Lets not discuss that too much, this is not another class vs class thread. Instead I would like to look at something that I think melee brings to the table that ranged does not, something powerful yet not often discussed, burst tanking. Amoung other general comments, I was hoping for some feedback from the heroic mode veterans on how useful they think this concept is.

An example. Shattered halls, a large pull. Sheeps, saps and fear kiting go off. For some reason a loose dot is put on one of the CC targets. Mob breaks and and is now loose. It now has to be dealt with. There are several options here, eg, some skilluful impromptu kiting, or some fast fingered tanking, but one of the options available is burst tanking while the current main target is dealt.

DPS Pallys, Enhancement Shamans, Rogues (evasion), Fury Warriors, Cat druids (via burst-bear). These are all melee dps classes, yet all bring this form of mob management to the table and it doesn't seem to get talked about very much.

My own opinion is that it is extremely useful, and the ability for melee DPS to burst tank often means we will chose them over ranged DPS if our group has only one melee class. Even when you list all the forms of normal crowd control, with sheep arguably the most powerful, they all have their limitations. Burst tanking fills a different nieche. It is not as directly powerful, and only works for short periods of time, yet it is far more wide ranging in its applicability - it works on almost all mobs, and in almost all situations.

Does anyone have any thoughts... ?

-Mags

What is burst tanking?

Burst tanking is the ability to tank for a short period of time without needing healing. (or minimal healing).

-Mags

Im not sure im following you?

You're saying a class can take minimal healing and 'burst tank' a mob, rather than a range class kiting it? Why would that be better?

-Mags

Because the kiting may not be possible, and in all cases kiting results in a loss of DPS. Kiting is good when, like sheep you need a mob to be "mezzed", ie removed from combat until further notice. But you don't always need that... you often only need a mob to be handled for 15 seconds or so. Burst tanking allows you to do that, sustain your full dps, and it is more widely applicable and usable in almost every situation.

-Mags

I'm pretty sure he means things like Evasion + KS tanking of a rogue or something along those lines, when a mob gets loose from the tank, and said tank doesnt have time to get that one mob back because he's allready tanking 4 others that he might lose by doing so. I mainly look at it as an extra safety net, so if I happen to get double stunned at the start of a pull and I lose a mob, a non clothy gets aggro on it till it dies/till I can get it back.

But then again, looking at the alternatives, a mage could just frost nova before it reaches the casters, which is more then enough time for any tank to get back to that mob if its actually dangerous. Overall I'm not impressed by the ability to "burst tank", mainly because its so incredibly situational, and even then not alot better then the alternatives.

Well, in heroics on tougher pulls we can pull the mobs back a bit. So we almost always have room to kite/fear. A mage frost bolt kiting doesnt need a huge area thanks to their other abilities, blink/nova/coc etc. A warlock fear kiting can still lay dots on his feared target and the DPS target.


While I have tanked heroic mobs briefly, even with 75% chance to dodge I have been 1 hit by some mobs through evasion so its definately not reliable.

I am afraid that range people can still take this mob out of the equation with far less risk and more effectivenes than the other classes.

Other than a rogue who can evasion tank, what would the other melee classes do to tank and take minimum damage?

Druid bear tank would still take damage.
Enhance shaman would be crushed
Fury warrior would be crushed.

Either way I would prefer a kite and for the rogue to remain on the main target. I also assume you are a rogue? because none of the other melee classes can tank without taking much damage.

As a DW shaman, i do a lot of your so-called "Burst tanking" ( even in heroic, on casters only ). Frost shock and unload large dps on a primary target while your tank is, in fact, "offtanking". I've done it ( with a shield on ) in Heroic Steamvault ( Naga chicks hits me for approx 750 ) and it works pretty well. You just need confidence from your party dps'ers and tell them they can go all out. It works well too on the second boss in Black morass ( though i won't attempt to steal aggro from him in heroic mode ) to prevent debuff stacking too high.

By definition, can't anything tank for a "short period of time without needing healing"? I mean the only variable there is how long a "short period" is. I guess I can kind of see an argument here if a rogue can effectively keep a mob stunlocked, but the mobs in heroic hit too hard for "a short period" to be very long at all.

Also, don't sign your posts.

-Mags

This was already mentioned in the Rogue Emo thread. To sum it up emergency off tanking by non tanks (including tanks not specced and/or geared for it) has the one advantage that while you keep the mob on you, your group's DPS does not have to stop. Nova, as good as it is, is not realiable to hold through DPS if you have to take the mob down ASAP.

Also, melee can complement ranged in kiting. If you have a Mage frostbolt kiting a mob, you can slow the mob with your class tools (such as Hamstring for Warriors and Crippling Poison for Rogues) and free up the Mage to do higher DPS (either by switching to Fireballs or if the Mage is frost by just being able to stand still for a longer time which is = more DPS from the Mage). If the Hunter is the one that does the kiting, all the better because he only has Concussion Shot to slow down mobs so he will appreciate any help he can get from Melee classes. Lastly, don't forget that many class can stun the mob that is being kited as well which is only a plus (I think everyone but Shamans can stun, right?).

Well, these are the advantages anyway. I'm sure you can come up with loads of disadvantages of bringing a Melee class over a Mage but it's not as bad people make it out to be in terms of CC.

I've read this thread multiple times and I can't really get my head round it.

Mobs in heroics hit way too hard to 'Burst Tank' (which I think is just a different spin on impromtu off tanking), as someone who occasionally 'Burst Tanks' previously tanked mobs I know this for a fact.

I just can't see any merit in this thread.

And also, please don't sign your threads. (It makes Kaubel angry and then he lets me die).