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02/19/07, 3:10 PM
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#31
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Glass Joe
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Last night we did Nightbane with:
Feral Druid (MT)
DPS Warrior (OT)
Rogue
Resto Druid
Mage
Resto Shaman
Shadow Priest
Warlock
Paladin
Holy Priest (Horde; no fear ward)
It went surprisingly well! 
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02/19/07, 3:37 PM
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#32
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Glass Joe
Murloc Warlock
Dragonmaw (EU)
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(A rough estimate of the best group compositions for each boss so far)
Attumen: 1 of each class + 1 random (I guess another tank, due to trash stuff)
Moroes: 2 tanks, 1 frostmage, 1 warlock, 1 holypriest, 1 shadowpriest, 1 paladin, 1 hunter, 1 rogue, 1 more healer
Maiden of Virtue: 1 tank, 1 shadowpriest, 3 healers, 5 ranged DPS
Opera - Romulo & Julianne: 2 tanks, 2 warlocks (or warlock+mage), 1 shaman, 3 more healers, 1 rogue, 1 DPS (rogue/hunter/warlock/mage)
The Curator: 1 tank, 1 shaman, 1 paladin/shaman, 1 warlock, 1 hunter, 2 rogues, 1 healer, 1 hybrid (enhanceshaman/feraldruid/shadowpriest), 1 DPS (rogue/hunter/warlock/mage)
Terestian Illhoof: 1 tank, 1 offtank, 3 healers, 2 AOE'ers, 3 DPS/hybrids (rogue/hunter/warlock/mage/enhanceshaman/feraldruid)
Shade of Aran: 1 tank, 2 warlocks, 2 rogues, 1 interrupt (enhanceshaman/rogue), 3 healers, 1 DPS (rogue/hunter/warlock/mage/enhanceshaman/feraldruid/shadowpriest)
Netherspite: 3 tanks, 3 healers, 2 warlocks/mages, 1 DPS (rogue/hunter/warlock/mage/enhanceshaman/feraldruid/shadowpriest), 1 shadowpriest
Prince Malchezaar: 1 tank, 3 healers, 6 DPS (rogue/hunter/warlock/mage/enhanceshaman/feraldruid/shadowpriest), 1 shadowpriest
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02/19/07, 4:01 PM
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#33
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Soda Popinski
Orc Death Knight
Mal'Ganis
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That is the most colorful post I've ever seen.
As for our group, we run too melee heavy. We have been using 2 Feral Druids, 2 Holy Priest, 1 Prot/Fury Warr, 2 Enh Shaman, 1 Rogue, 1 Mage, +1 (usually mage or hunter). Illhoof was essentially impossible for our makeup/gear level. We could get Aran down to the low 20s high teens percentwise, but we had no good way to deal with the elementals.
To switch it up, I'm (Feral Druid, Tank 2) am going to go healing, and one priest is going to go shadow. That +1 is likely to become a warlock. Although we don't expect the bosses to simply fall over with the rearrangement of talents + addition of a warlock, I foresee both Illhoof and Aran dying on our next reset.
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02/19/07, 4:30 PM
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#34
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by thejdawg
To switch it up, I'm (Feral Druid, Tank 2) am going to go healing, and one priest is going to go shadow. That +1 is likely to become a warlock. Although we don't expect the bosses to simply fall over with the rearrangement of talents + addition of a warlock, I foresee both Illhoof and Aran dying on our next reset.
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I highly recommend adding a warlock to your group. My groups first clear of karazhan (except nightbane and spite) was without a warlock, and Aran was hands down the hardest boss for us (Prince took longer but only because of his bugs). For our second week, we swapped a warlock for Aran and it became a much simpler fight. The updates to Illhoof also make a warlock very useful. We originally killed his easy version with one AOEr (mage), but after his buff, one mage couldn't handle it by himself anymore; his mana was gone long before Illhoof was.
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02/19/07, 5:41 PM
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#35
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King Hippo
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Originally Posted by Overnuker
(A rough estimate of the best group compositions for each boss so far)
snip
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Needlessly complicated. Most of the things you "need" you'll have with a balanced group. There are only a couple of specific fights where certain groups will have a much easier time.
Attumen: 1 tank, 1 OT. Healers and DPS.
Moroes: 1 tank, 1 OT. Healers and DPS (2 priests).
Maiden of Virtue: 1 tank. Healers and DPS.
Opera - Romulo & Julianne: 1 tank, 1 OT. Some interrupts, purge/spellsteal. Healers and DPS.
The Curator: 1 tank. Decent burst DPS. Healers.
Terestian Illhoof: 1 tank, 1 OT. AoE, burst DPS and healers.
Shade of Aran: Interrupts. Warlock. Healers and DPS.
Netherspite: (still havn't done!  )
Prince Malchezaar: 1 tank. Healers and DPS.
Nightbane: 1 tank. 1 holy pally. Healers and DPS.
What group will have what is needed for every single boss?
1 Prot Warrior - Main Tank
1 Feral Druid - OT or DPS
1 Shadow Priest - DPS
1 Warlock - DPS
1 Mage - DPS
1 Rogue - DPS
1 Holy Pally - Healing
1 Holy Priest - Healing
1 Shaman - Healing
1 Hunter - DPS
I cant think of a group I'd rather have if there was a race to clear the instance from beginning to end. It can do every encounter very well.
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02/21/07, 7:06 PM
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#36
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Von Kaiser
Dwarf Hunter
Antonidas (EU)
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Originally Posted by Lamaros
Nightbane: 1 tank. 1 holy pally. Healers and DPS.
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i saw a couple of threads mentioning that you need a holy pally for Nightbane
is there a special reason for that other than their ability to heal nearly forever with the right equipment
Last edited by Dryw : 02/21/07 at 7:12 PM.
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02/21/07, 7:47 PM
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#37
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King Hippo
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Originally Posted by Lamaros
What group will have what is needed for every single boss?
1 Prot Warrior - Main Tank
1 Feral Druid - OT or DPS
1 Shadow Priest - DPS
1 Warlock - DPS
1 Mage - DPS
1 Rogue - DPS
1 Holy Pally - Healing
1 Holy Priest - Healing
1 Shaman - Healing
1 Hunter - DPS
I cant think of a group I'd rather have if there was a race to clear the instance from beginning to end. It can do every encounter very well.
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I'm biased but...
Replace the Holy Priest with a 2nd paladin for an extra blessing for everyone in the raid and an extra aura. Put the 2 paladins in the shadow priest's group and they will never ever ever run out of mana ever (spiritual attunement is hax). One of the paladins can also act as the 3rd OT as/when needed.
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02/21/07, 7:52 PM
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#38
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Von Kaiser
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Currently, my guild has found that any group can basically clear up to and through Curator. Past Curator melee DPS becomes important for the trash pulls and the kick/pummel/shield bash on Shade. Prince seems to require at least 3 solid healers and a Shadow Priest, with ranged DPS being important to avoid the AoE attacks from both the boss and Infernals.
Our Team 1 normally use the following:
Warrior (MT)
Warrior (OT)
Holy Priest
Holy Priest
Tree Druid
Shadow Priest
Mage (Frost or Fire)
Warlock
Warlock
Rogue
However, we have subbed out on various occasions a Holy Pally for a Holy Priest, a Hunter for a Warlock, and a Ret Pally for a Rogue (not much to my liking, but eh...).
Team 2 is just starting and they are using:
Warrior (MT)
Warrior (OT)
Holy Priest
Holy Priest
Holy Pally
Mage (Frost)
Mage (Fire)
Warlock
Warlock
Rogue
This combination did NOT seem to work for them. Partially due to their lack of gear and partially because of the lack of a Shadow Priest. I cannot stress enough how important a Shadow Priest is on almost all the encounters. For the early encounters they are not as important but come the Curator and beyond they are extremely vital.
Now, one question I do have, has anyone encountered problems with some of their members complaining about off-specs being allowed (or not) into their raids?
Traditionally, Shadow Priests were considered an off-spec but, since TBC, have become critically important. Likewise, Feral Tanks have really come into their own. I have continually been running into a problem with Ret Pallys though, since they see Shadow Priests and Feral Druids in raids and can't understand why they aren't in the raid as well.
Has anyone found a really viable use for a Ret Pally or even a Moonkin Druid that cannot be fulfilled by another, better suited class? At least in Karazhan I have yet to find an encounter that either of these spec lines would shine in.
Furthermore, without the gear to support these specs is there any reason to take these off-spec classes?
EDIT:
We have a Shammy coming up in the ranks soon and having never played horde-side I was wondering what the best function he might serve as well? Healer, DPS, both? Who could/should that person replace with the teams I have listed above?
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02/21/07, 7:58 PM
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#39
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King Hippo
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Originally Posted by Dryw
i saw a couple of threads mentioning that you need a holy pally for Nightbane
is there a special reason for that other than their ability to heal nearly forever with the right equipment
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Yes, there is. See the Nightbane thread.
A second pally over the Holy Priest would work well too. I think I just prefer the priest so you have a little more variety in the healers (Mending, yadda). The second shackle is also nifty for some bits and trash.
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Has anyone found a really viable use for a Ret Pally or even a Moonkin Druid that cannot be fulfilled by another, better suited class? At least in Karazhan I have yet to find an encounter that either of these spec lines would shine in.
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Sure, there are specific places where these would be useful (though not necessary), the problem is that they are not useful in all places, and with 10 men you can't afford to have someone being not useful at at time unless you want to make it hard for yourself.
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02/21/07, 7:58 PM
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#40
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Don Flamenco
Draenei Mage
Lightbringer
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Our ret paladin could push 600+ dps without breaking a sweat, so DPS-wise they can validate themselves. However, I find that their lack of a short-cooldown interrupt (akin to pummel, kick or earth shock) really hurts them in the mid-late karazhan fights. We actually had ours respec holy so he could heal while we do karazhan, but will go back to ret when we do mostly 25-man raids. The +3% crit debuff he applies is far more effective when the number of beneficiaries increases (obviously).
As for moonkin, I don't see how they would bring much more to the table than another class. If you don't have a resto or feral druid, they could provide mark for everyone, as well as an extra innervate and battle rez. We don't have any in our guild though.
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02/21/07, 8:01 PM
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#41
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King Hippo
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Originally Posted by Dryw
i saw a couple of threads mentioning that you need a holy pally for Nightbane
is there a special reason for that other than their ability to heal nearly forever with the right equipment
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Blessings make a pretty big difference.
Blessing of Kings (Tank)
Blessing of Might (Melee dps + hunters)
Blessing of Wisdom (Casters)
Blessing of Salvation (Warlocks, Shadow Priests?).
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02/21/07, 8:18 PM
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#42
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King Hippo
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Originally Posted by Tempestra
Our ret paladin could push 600+ dps without breaking a sweat, so DPS-wise they can validate themselves. However, I find that their lack of a short-cooldown interrupt (akin to pummel, kick or earth shock) really hurts them in the mid-late karazhan fights. We actually had ours respec holy so he could heal while we do karazhan, but will go back to ret when we do mostly 25-man raids. The +3% crit debuff he applies is far more effective when the number of beneficiaries increases (obviously).
As for moonkin, I don't see how they would bring much more to the table than another class. If you don't have a resto or feral druid, they could provide mark for everyone, as well as an extra innervate and battle rez. We don't have any in our guild though.
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Out of interest does the ret paladin have a ctprofile?
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02/21/07, 8:57 PM
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#43
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Tempestra
As for moonkin, I don't see how they would bring much more to the table than another class. If you don't have a resto or feral druid, they could provide mark for everyone, as well as an extra innervate and battle rez. We don't have any in our guild though.
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I'd personally be willing to give a decent moonkin a shot in a 25 man raid once we get there. Not a spec that personally grabs me but the combination of a 3% +hit bonus to physical damage dealers raid wide and the 5% crit aura to party spell casters is a pretty solid contribution. Couple that with another innervate and battle res and provided said druid can do a respectable amount of dps/shifts to healing when needed I'd consider it worth the trade off of one pure dps class.
Wouldn't favour one in a 10 man raid, same arguement as with ret paladins plus not going to get a full spellcasting party going as easily and definitely don't need two for a 25 man since not getting the benefit of improved Fairie Fire twice. Other issue is that with no threat control and a fairly high crit approach they're going to need to have decent judgement about their agro at times. All a bit of a non issue for us at the moment admittedly since our raiding druids are resto or feral.
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02/21/07, 9:03 PM
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#44
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Piston Honda
Dwarf Paladin
Whisperwind
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Originally Posted by Lamaros
Yes, there is. See the Nightbane thread.
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I just read through that thread again. I'm not seeing any real reason that the Paladin being Holy matters (which I think was the original question, yes Paladins rock for the fight in general). Is it just for improved aura range, or what?
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02/21/07, 9:16 PM
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#45
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King Hippo
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Originally Posted by Meddler
I'd personally be willing to give a decent moonkin a shot in a 25 man raid once we get there. Not a spec that personally grabs me but the combination of a 3% +hit bonus to physical damage dealers raid wide and the 5% crit aura to party spell casters is a pretty solid contribution. Couple that with another innervate and battle res and provided said druid can do a respectable amount of dps/shifts to healing when needed I'd consider it worth the trade off of one pure dps class.
Wouldn't favour one in a 10 man raid, same arguement as with ret paladins plus not going to get a full spellcasting party going as easily and definitely don't need two for a 25 man since not getting the benefit of improved Fairie Fire twice. Other issue is that with no threat control and a fairly high crit approach they're going to need to have decent judgement about their agro at times. All a bit of a non issue for us at the moment admittedly since our raiding druids are resto or feral.
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Aggro is really no problem when you have pallies and decent tanks.
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