Let me start this off with a bit of background by saying we consider ourselves a pretty competant guild, recently reformed from the top horde guild on the server we had just downed loatheb by the end of normal wow and made a concious decision to reform and focus on being the best of the best, at least try our best to be.

We progressed quite fast scored server first and what appears to be at least Horde top 5 kills on Maulgar, Doomwalker not quite sure about Kazzak and have now moved on to clearing everything except Magtheridon and SSC and usually by pretty early on in the week.

Not quite sure how good a tracker this is but its better than nothing www.realmhistory.net and check progress from the different instances

This week both our Karazhan groups cleared in 2 days and by friday we were pretty stumped on what to do, our usual 25 man day is sundays where we go play with Maulgar, and some outdoor bosses.

So we decided to enter Magtheridon's Lair and started playing with the trash for a while which seems to have a 30-45 minute respawn timer and allows 2/3 tries on Mag per respawn also remember to clear all trash and engaging the boss agro's all remaining packs in the zone.

Mag is set out with 5 Channellers around him each have about 300k health hit for 3.5k on plate, have Shadow Bolt volley for about 1.5-2k dmg and also have a dark pact heal. They are immune to all stun effects but can be Curse of Tongues'd. These adds also spawn infernals which when spawned on someone hit for 2.5k aoe to anyone near then proceed to hit for about 3k each, they are full CC'able banishable and kiteable. When the fight starts all 5 become active while Mag is suspended for 2 minutes which we found was enough time to kill 1 add. After 1 add dies the other 4 gain a 30% dmg enrage and a 15% attack speed increase.

We also tried off tanking them for the duration of the 2 mins hoping for a Razorgore like add despawning session, but when Mag became active only the infernals dissapeared leaving 5 tanks on the 5 adds and 1 tank also trying to tank Mag. Mag hits for 500-700 on plate and not much but after about 10 seconds does a channelled Aoe fire nova for about 2.5k a hit which also knocks you backwards with each pulse (hence the FR).

One thing that does appear when he becomes active is the 5 channellers cubes which are able to be controlled by anyone but do 800dmg per second to anyone using them, we never managed to get all 5 rolling at the same time so are not quite sure what these do, some sort of control or banish over Mag maybe? Also when you release the control of the cube you get a 1 minute Mind Exhaustion so you cannot use any cube again

Has anyone else attempted this and does anyone else agree that he is currently cockblocked?

Isnt it a bit early to say he is cockblocked if you dont even know what these cubes supposedly do?

Seems to me the clear progression path is to do serpentshrine well before mag and the eye naturally. Reasons for this is obvious, gruul is clearly easier than mag and does not require 100 badges per person to kill him. Also the eye attunement is obviously much more difficult than SSC. Its awesome that you're taking a chance and giving him a shot but I don't think you'll see many people doing that before they get their 100 badges.

I'm not the only one who thinks this, there is a post from DnT stating it aswell and I dunno if Nihilum/Curse have given him a go yet but I would assume so

I haven't done the fight but

Only if mag drops tier 5. If he drops the tier 4 chest then that's certainly not the intended progression.

Im not disputing him being cockblocked or not (as I have never tried the fight and as such cant have any oppinion about it). My point was that until the encounter is understood (and from your post it seemed it was not) it seems premature to completely dismiss it.

Magtheridon is the new C'thun ?
I look forward the the sprawling RnD posts involving hiding behind shields to reflect the AoE.

I will (in an act of folly) make the following reserved comments:
Either the cubes do nothing, (like the chairs in nefarians room), they cannot be used by players (think razuveous), or they are currently broken. There is also the possibility of enslaving spawned infernals.

Good luck with this, and SSC

Unless of course the cubes do something like massively debuff the adds/mag, give you control of the adds, or something similar.

When you haven't even been able to try if they do something, the cockblock call is way premature. It would be like saying Razuvious is a cockblock because tanking him seems impossible.

Congrats on finding a pet peeve of mine.

The next person who uses the word "cockblock" gets a 7-day ban.

I thought it was stated that Magtheridon drops Tier 4, while SSC drops parts of Tier 5? So while that may be the *actual* progression path, it seems unlikely that it's the intended progression path, surely?

What if the cubes enabled you to control the adds somehow. Or they mitigated their damage somehow. It is a bit pointless to speculate unless we have actually been in the fight and spent some time investigating each aspect of it. Currently it seems no one, even the OP, has done this so it leaves every other argument and comment to be unfounded and therefore irrelevant.

Until that changes, I would suggest it's far too early to make any assumptions about whether or not the encounter is possible.

The reason I don't like Magtheridon is that the mechanics of the encounter beg for an unreasonably stacked raid. In previous encounters, stacking implied relatively minor changes to raid composition - perhaps beefing up your DPS a bit, or bringing extra members of a certain class. Magtheridon takes it to another level. Each aspect of the Magtheridon fight is made much easier if you bring a certain class, and each of these requirements is multiplied by five. There are six mobs to tank, five mobs to interrupt, five dangerous (but banishable) adds, and enough area of effect damage that you need have a great deal of sustained healing. So, you want to go in there for some serious attempts - you bring ten healers, six warriors, five warlocks, four rogues. Painfully obvious (unless I am missing something?), and entirely over-the-top. I thought the "this is an excellent fight but we don't like the stacking required" response to the Four Horsemen basically precluded another encounter designed in the same vein. Guess not.

From what's being described in the OP these channelers and their adds are only the first part of the fight and of the things you listed, I'm pretty sure you have pretty much every class covered:

10 Healers (Druids/Pallies/Priests/Shamen)
6 Tanks (Druids/Warriors) + Pallies?
4 Interrupts (Shamen/Rogues/Warriors) + Mages?
5 (Warlocks) + Hunters?

The only classes you're missing there are mages and hunters. Hunters can easily sub in for warlocks in dealing with the adds (kiting/trapping), leaving only one class out of the mix. Mages, who can also interrupt (although not as well as rogues/warriors) and may be better for phase 2 since it is a "fire" fight (pun not intended although I don't really know enough to comment on that. Basically, I don't think that the group composition you listed there is very unreasonable. If anything you could even drop a tank from that list since the OP said they usually killed one of the adds before the 2min timer was up and have that add's tank pick up Mag.

I like Boevis's (Boevis'?) thoughts. The OP has stated that its unpossible to actually use the cubes. There might be something to the speculation of using infernals to tank or mind controlled channelers to click the cubes. Hell with 300k health, 800/second is nothing.

TBC has been out for one month and 4 days. People were banging their heads against C'Thun for months before the claims of shenanigans were made. I think people are still a little skeeved out since that debacle and are more willing to immediately cry foul.

You know I spend a lot of time reading DnT posts and I've seen nothing of the sort. TBH with you most of our time is consumed in SS cavern so we haven't even much bothered with Magtheridon, let alone declared him a cockblock.

Magtheridon strikes me as how Gurg paints Gruul. Why would you bother to invest the time on him until you have a sufficient number of people ready to complete their Eye attunement (and based on the datamined items the zone/itemization isn't even finished yet).

Honestly how can you call anything a [word removed for fear of aggroing Kabuel] at this stage in the xpack? The expansion has been out for what... a month? Are you telling me that every single person in your guild is geared in the best items available in one month? Have you even have had time to farm all the fire resist gear from the heroics for that many people? Are people still wearing 5man instance blues? I mean come on, this like stepping into BWL in your dungeon 1 set and declaring razorgore to be impossible.

This makes me wonder, is there anyone who tried this fight in the new fire gear or even some MC gear just to see what kind of difference it does?

Well, you cant put the FR on the tanks because the add(s) will destroy them. (When you kill one add, the other 4 gain 33% more damage and a 33% casting speed increase. And I damn sure it stacks up)

The cubes do something pretty important to the fight. I dont really want to ruin the "fun" of this encounter, but its not doable without everyone in the raid wearing full kara // gruul // and some serpentshrine loot.

Is there any good reason this thread should continue to exist? So far I've seen a lot of "well I haven't done the fight but maybe you could try X" and "well we don't know for sure how Y works but still it seems impossible."

The main valid point I've seen raised here thus far is Rambar's, which is simply that if Magtheridon is intended to be parallel to Gruul as a t4 endboss, then perhaps his difficulty is unintended. That's far from him necessarily being impossible, though. Give Blizzard some time to tune. Gruul was tested a fair bit on beta, while I don't believe anyone put nearly as much time in Magtheridon, probably because of the FR requirement (right?). It's still very early -- I'm sure if he's overly hard and Blizzard intended for him to go down at around the same time as Gruul, they'll make some tweaks. 25-man raids with TBC gear and mechanics are still new, and I'd rather have these bosses overtuned and tweaked downward than the reverse, especially because they are gateway/key bosses. Unlike past bosses where an easy boss just meant a loot pinata for a couple of weeks until they buffed it, here if they'd made Magtheridon too easy and then buffed him, you'd have groups of people who basically got free TK attunments without being able to kill the intended version. That would be bad.

Anyway, this all seems premature, no?

Aye I guess it could be called premature, but if it means the few guilds that have had a few tries at him get to share a few ideas and theorycraft a bit of the fight I would personally call it planning ahead than premature worry

No, there's no good reason this thread should exist, when more than half the posts are just speculation from people who haven't even done the fight. It's more worthy of a R&D post really. Speculating that it's impossible is silly. People immediately claimed Gruul was impossible with the stealth fix to shatter damage, and we saw that wasn't the case. Too much knee-jerking.