We used a Flask + Stoneshields for our first kill, just a flask on our second, and nothing for the last couple kills. 15khp is what we found to be about the breaking point in what your tank needs to survive. Some people use DPS pots but I haven't outside our first kill. As an Affliction Warlock I can put out enough DPS to risk going over the tank's threat anyways, or atleast close enough to not want to risk it (we don't use KTM).
Got him down for the 2nd time today (First time for me ) and Stoneshields pots made the healing much more managable. I'd strongly reccomend them for stage 2 onwards.
Got him down for the 2nd time today (First time for me ) and Stoneshields pots made the healing much more managable. I'd strongly reccomend them for stage 2 onwards.
Curious to what healers (and how many) you had which made this so? and you could simply make a warlock use CoWeakness to achieve a similar effect.
We use CoReck in P1 (assuming 3 melee/hunter total or higher), CoW in P2, CoE/CoS in P3 generally and things go rather smoothly
Stoneshields are relatively cheap, as are Ironshields (especially with a mining character). Thanks to the flood of miners, Primal Earths are down to 3G during high-traffic sales days (such as weekends) so spending 15G for a stack is nothing to me when I can make that in minutes of farming mobs. There's no shame in using them for your tank as well as a flask. Our guild only has 2 regular raiding warlocks, and their attendance is pretty good but that doesn't afford us the use of Curses 100% of the time. Try doing Aran without warlocks and it's a whole different fight...but I digress!
As for the randomness, just know when to move and be decisive about it. If your ranged or melee group has 2 infernals nearby, why risk it? Just have your tank hike the Prince over. You may have to shieldwall to do it from 60-30, but if you're going to burn it on that fight you might as well do it during that phase anyways.
Best thing about Prince is, at 30% you've more or less won the fight.
First kill today. I don't say this very often, but it seemed very easy. We'd spent way too long wiping on Aran for a few raids, and this guy was nothing in comparison--went down in 3-4 attempts.
Tank was Flasked, but no Stoneshields. Usual Karazhan healing--3 main healers and 1 hybrid. No mana problems. He does 0 damage to non-tanks for nearly all of the fight, so I don't know what could complicate things.
Basically, the fight's not nearly as hectic as it would seem from reading about it. The raid spends the great majority of the time standing still. Once every 2-3 mins (on average) you're forced to move.
I can see how having some convenient infernal spawns may have helped us, but even still, I don't foresee any problems. Simple rule: never stand in a safe zone which is small enough to be obliterated by one Hellfire. What else is there to worry about?
Some good responses here. Thanks for the input everyone. We're gunna work on getting him from 60-30 much faster. Pretty much every week right now our DPS is:
Hunter x2
Warlock (me)
Mage
Rogue (or a DPS Warrior.. trying to get him Gorehowl)
Melee are so gimped for this fight, it's sad. When we bring our DPS Warrior, he barely keeps up with our MT for total damage done. No idea what he's doing wrong, but we get overwhelmed pretty fast by infernals because DPS is too slow.
To top it off, our Mage (this last kill) is working with 85 spell hit. Totally unacceptable. He doesn't have Elemental Precision, or Frost Channeling. So, basically if he tries to nuke at all from 100-60, he goes OOM incredibly fast and sees loads of resists. We're working on this with him.
For our most recent kill, total damage done meters were like:
Warlock (me) @ 27% - I'm 7/43/11 with 144 +hit and 1050ish shadow spellpower raid buffed.
Hunter x2 @ ~ 20% pacing each other pretty closely
Mage @ 13%
DPS Warrior @ 12%
Tank @ like 8%
Last edited by Vazu : 02/26/07 at 2:28 AM.
Reason: Some numbers a bit off.
Melee regularly top the charts on our kills. Are your melee making sure to reposition before shadow novas to avoid getting knocked across the room?
Yeah, he does run out. It gets a helluva lot more difficult though when he's boxed in by infernals and the Prince starts throwing enfeebles around. I think it makes him a lot more hesitant to go back in. When we've got our Rogue, kills are generally smoother. But I credit that to CLoS, primarily.
Yeah, he does run out. It gets a helluva lot more difficult though when he's boxed in by infernals and the Prince starts throwing enfeebles around. I think it makes him a lot more hesitant to go back in. When we've got our Rogue, kills are generally smoother. But I credit that to CLoS, primarily.
Your melee run out of range for every shadow nova, even if they aren't enfeebled? That could be part of the problem. Our melee stays in unless they are enfeebled. By repositioning, I meant they run to where the main tank is standing (back to a wall) while shadow nova is casting, and then run back behind prince and do whatever it is that they do.
Got him for the first time last night on our second try at him. Pots that I used were 15agi, 500 armor, and uh, that was about it. Think I was at 22-23% dodge and 17.20% parry. Incredible string of avoidance while he as dw'ing, that phase was just 15k hp -> 10 seconds later -> 4k hp. Our healers had good trigger fingers though. What killed us the first time was that I got a streak of hits for 2332, 3951 and 4365 on the same second, just as I was moving away from the Infernal on me. The rest of the raid was moving too so guess they weren't prepared for that burst. Raid had to move a few times on the second go, and I had to move 2 times when tanking. It went pretty flawless except when an infernal landed on me during the last 10% and the only spot free in sight was where the raid was and they had one a bit behind them. So unless you want to run across a few of them, I can see it being pretty tricky trying to get some space if you're unlucky. And I'm pretty sure our melee stayed in unless they were enfeebled. Our top dps'er was a rogue at 27% with a 71dps dagger, next one was at 17% or so, a shadowpriest. And no other melee in the raid.
To top it off, our Mage (this last kill) is working with 85 spell hit. Totally unacceptable. He doesn't have Elemental Precision, or Frost Channeling. So, basically if he tries to nuke at all from 100-60, he goes OOM incredibly fast and sees loads of resists. We're working on this with him.
If your mage goes OOM fast on this fight, he is doing something incredibly wrong. Without using mana potions if should be easy to just sit there and burn while chaining mana gems/evocation with mage armor up. I am full fire spec (arguably the most mana intensive) and only have mana problems at the very end of that fight.
If he needs more hit, definitely have him get Elemental Precision, but also check out Robe of the Crimson Order. These robes are simply amazing for fights where stamina isn't a priority. They are BoE so getting them shouldn't be a huge issue either.
What kind of consumables are people using on this guy? Is a flask + stoneshields pretty common? I know without a flask a decently geared tank just got 2 shot in phase 2 (2 back to back 5-6 crushings). Its definetely a really fun encounter to heal, his damage output seems a little high though for a 10 man boss.
Although it is quite significant his damage output, it is nowhere as close to what Nightbane does. I found just a flask to be more than enough for our MT. He doesn't drink Stoneshield Potions at least..
Got him for the first time last night on our second try at him. Pots that I used were 15agi, 500 armor, and uh, that was about it. Think I was at 22-23% dodge and 17.20% parry. Incredible string of avoidance while he as dw'ing, that phase was just 15k hp -> 10 seconds later -> 4k hp. Our healers had good trigger fingers though. What killed us the first time was that I got a streak of hits for 2332, 3951 and 4365 on the same second, just as I was moving away from the Infernal on me. The rest of the raid was moving too so guess they weren't prepared for that burst. Raid had to move a few times on the second go, and I had to move 2 times when tanking. It went pretty flawless except when an infernal landed on me during the last 10% and the only spot free in sight was where the raid was and they had one a bit behind them. So unless you want to run across a few of them, I can see it being pretty tricky trying to get some space if you're unlucky. And I'm pretty sure our melee stayed in unless they were enfeebled. Our top dps'er was a rogue at 27% with a 71dps dagger, next one was at 17% or so, a shadowpriest. And no other melee in the raid.
i swear the dude crushes more then any other mob i've ever seen in the game. I've seen common strings of 6-7 crushings in a row. Nerf warriors :P.
Originally Posted by Apate
Zyla, International Man of a Certain Standard.
Originally Posted by Wraithlin
What have you brought to this discussion? The usual vacuous and contentless tripe that you contribute to these forums - no more and no less.
Got him for the first time last night on our second try at him. Pots that I used were 15agi, 500 armor, and uh, that was about it. Think I was at 22-23% dodge and 17.20% parry. Incredible string of avoidance while he as dw'ing, that phase was just 15k hp -> 10 seconds later -> 4k hp. Our healers had good trigger fingers though. What killed us the first time was that I got a streak of hits for 2332, 3951 and 4365 on the same second, just as I was moving away from the Infernal on me. The rest of the raid was moving too so guess they weren't prepared for that burst. Raid had to move a few times on the second go, and I had to move 2 times when tanking. It went pretty flawless except when an infernal landed on me during the last 10% and the only spot free in sight was where the raid was and they had one a bit behind them. So unless you want to run across a few of them, I can see it being pretty tricky trying to get some space if you're unlucky. And I'm pretty sure our melee stayed in unless they were enfeebled. Our top dps'er was a rogue at 27% with a 71dps dagger, next one was at 17% or so, a shadowpriest. And no other melee in the raid.
One of ours was cut short as well by a spike like that. Does he have a thrash?
You know when he busts out the axes, it could be in my head but he seems to incur a hit rate penalty like players because while he can spike very high, there are times when I just get miss spam in my log and thats how it has been every time I've killed him. On phase 3 he just doesn't do enough damage to matter for some reason.
I'm a consumable whore, I always have piles of stoneshields on me. Using one mitigates a lot of damage over that 2 minutes so I see no reason not to to guarantee an easier win. Its not necessary, but just due to the spike damage potential I'd rather just use them and not have to run back up.
My biggest concerns are in regards to enfeeble/infernal combos.
1. I have died more than once, getting enfeebled, standing in the group of healers/casters where they are not getting hit by near by infernals yet I die. I have seen this same thing happen to our Feral Druid.
2. If an infernal lands on top or very close to the MT and an enfeeble comes within a second or two, any melee with the enfeeble will die. This has only happen to us once, but it seems like a death sentance. I suppose that the chance of an enfeeble coupled with an infernal in that exact location is very low, but it can happen none the less.
Regarding the randomness, It is very annoying and makes for putting this encounter on farm more difficult than traditional encounters. The only solice I can take is in that, as gear and dps increases the number of infernals before the <10% decreases. At some point there should be a threshold at which the encounter becomes easier and more farmable because of this.
Prince is relativly fine as hes so damn easy outside of the infernal issue, it just simply something that keeps a raid on their toes rather than on their TV screens during the encounter.
2. If an infernal lands on top or very close to the MT and an enfeeble comes within a second or two, any melee with the enfeeble will die. This has only happen to us once, but it seems like a death sentance. I suppose that the chance of an enfeeble coupled with an infernal in that exact location is very low, but it can happen none the less.
Try to keep an eye out for incoming infernal as you see them flying through the air. It's sort of tough, especially with the Prince's big ass in the way while meleeing him, but you should be able to tell if it's coming into melee range and have about 8 seconds to preemptively move before you get 1 shot. The only time it's essentially unavoidable is when you get boxed in between an infernal and his shadow nova while enfeebled.
My issue with this fight is getting boxed in by elementals. I've tried just about everything to keep it controllable and I'm at a loss for what to change. About 15 seconds before an infernal drops, I look at the raid position and tell them what their 'escape route' should be in case an infernal falls on top of them. No matter how many intelligent decisions I try to make for raid movement, it has always come back to bite me in the ass when an infernal lands in the ONE spot on the balcony where we couldn't afford for it to land. The other issue is we have about a 50% rate of infernals falling on healers during the phase 2 and generally if they stop chain healing, the tank dies (1 holy priest, 1 holy pally, 1 resto shaman, 1 feral/resto druid healing). Maybe we just have bad luck, but I feel like it's a cop out to say that.
My issue with trying to keep the raid in a "Safe Spot" like the door or against the north wall to avoid infernals altogether is that it is obviously not an intended mechanism and may get fixed soon. Don't want to have to relearn it.
My group got him for the first time tonight, only real buffs were Flask on the tank (not sure about other pots) he was over 15k hp. None of the dps used pots because it was our first shot at him, figured we would give it a shot then full buff, ended up being a one shot. We tanked him on the left side of the door (walk in to the left) and the tank only had to move once around 20% and the ranged only had to move once around 3%. Noone died and I never saw the MT hp go below 60%.
I can see how the 'randomness' of the infernals could make this a tough fight, but after spending 4 nights (!) on Aran, he seemed like a pushover.
Edit: The infernals ended up starting right in front of the door (behind the ranged) and following the outer edge of his balcony all the way around before getting to the tank. The ones by the door had despawned by then so we never got boxed in.
Last edited by Acustar : 02/26/07 at 12:07 PM.
Reason: Infernals
At every point in this fight during the normal-speed infernals, the group needs a plan:
Where are we moving if it lands right on healers, and where are we moving if it lands right on the tank. Don't wait until its too late, these options need to be on everyone's mind for the duration.
If you don't have a contingency for both of these options, you need to move SOON- wait for the next enfeeble and then go somewhere else. A tank can run right through a hellfire if the healers are in position and ready for it. Don't wait until its too late and you have no place to go. Be proactive and anticipate your space. Even if you are totally safe "for now" and have one backup spot, that doesn't mean you shouldn't consider moving him. In phase 1, its very easy to drag him wherever you want since the damage is so low. Aim to be in the best spot available to start phase 2 and it helps tremendously.
Regarding tanks and consumables, our kills went: warrior+flask(no imp), then warrior unflasked (no imp), then druid unflasked (imp).
i swear the dude crushes more then any other mob i've ever seen in the game. I've seen common strings of 6-7 crushings in a row. Nerf warriors :P.
He can crush a warrior quite a bit too, he attacks fast enough that you don't realistically have shieldblock up all the time. I can understand the desire to use stoneshield in this fight. My first encounter with him was 8k crush, 4k hit all in the space of about 1.5-2 seconds. Last stand can be a lifesaver in phase 2 if you get an unlucky string.
If you haven't tanked Romulo yet, I've seen him do similar damage. I'm not exactly underarmored either (12.4k unbuffed, I juiced up to ~16.5k last night). He hit me for a 6k crush followed by a 4k instant attack in the space of 1-2 seconds.
One of ours was cut short as well by a spike like that. Does he have a thrash?
Yes, he'll thrash during both phase 1 and 2 (probably 3 as well), which can get ugly if he's enraged in p1. Once everyone gets accustomed to the mobility though, even something like that won't be unreasonable to heal through.
Just to chip in late, as long as you're lucky with infernals, this fight is a pushover. We finally got the Shade of Aran down last night (been shuffling people in and out of groups, so it took us 3 weeks). With about an hour left in our raid window, we headed to the Prince, got to 45% on our first attempt, 25% on our second (both attempts being ruined by infernals), and dead on the third with only light potting (no flasks, tomes, etc.).
It's a little underwhelming, but now we can start working towards Nightbane, which should be a lot more fun I hope.
02/25/07, 7:57 PM
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