◊ Praetorian

I think our killshot positioning more or less summarizes our experience from the past couple of days. Onward to better things, however.

 

• Umph

You dodge Sabre Lash.
Sabre Lash misses you.
*sits down*.
Sabre Lash Misses you.
You -- Sabre Lash.
You ++ Fatal Attraction.

 

• Snowy

Interesting reaction when she dropped over.. pretty much "f this fight." Really I don't think it's THAT bad, just a couple of things could be minorly tweaked. FA is a really neat concept and is the calling card of the fight. Just remove the BS positions (seriously -- Gurg, me and someone else got ported into that corner, wedged between the tree and the wall, with one way out. Screw that) and maybe make it slightly more forgiving. It could either be a short delay before it ticks for the first time, or make it scale like the arcane guardians in Karazhan.

Definitely a relief to have her down, the last 1% took forever and I think everyone was cringing it was going to be a reply of our Monday 1% wipe.

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◊ Turik

Super loaded question:

So far, Black Temple the next Naxx, or not so?

One of the reasons I wasn't in a hurry to progress as a guild was that I had heard such boring things about end-game raiding, and now it seems to be a large improvement, yet I still hear mixed things on most encounters.

The issue still remains: Trash = not fun, Boss = fun. Obviously there are exceptions, but I think they are making serious work in ZA trash.

TK trash = lol 5k aoe go heal oh wait your dead, isn't this fun?

 

◊ Praetorian

BT is great. Shahraz is dumb. The rest of the zone looks to be our reward for killing her. I'm excited about the rest of this timer. Not excited about doing her again next week.

 

MikeK

Congratulations EJ. Yes, Mother isnt a particularly nice fight, but now you have Council and Mr Stormrage to go which are two of my most favourite fights in BC. Good luck to you, and hope to see an Illidan killshot soon.

 

Abbaten

Congrats.
Random boss, we have 8% wipe on last week and just wiped because we got fatal attraction near raid(in tent...)... and it killed all the raid healers(on 11%).... after it MT healers and raid died =\ I don't know will we kill her in these cooldown, because she have so many random factors. But other bosses is good in BT.
P.S. yea fight is dumb :P

 

◊ bartolimu

Posting in this thread.

 

◊ Raylen

mochiloc ur so awesome

 

Infused

I know exactly what you mean
We had 2 people getting stuck after teleport, they couldn't move at all...

 

mop

What the- Innovative positioning. Grats!

You enjoy council? It feels like a boring version of Twin emperors go BC.

 

◊ Praetorian

Not sure if I'm missing sarcasm, but that wasn't our actual positioning. If she were incapable of porting people into the space between the benches/trees and the wall, then it could actually work well. Unfortunately, she is very, very, very capable of porting people precisely there, and liked to do so with annoying frequency.

 

Ghando

That person was me, and I hate both of you.

 

• Xaviera

You should have found a way to get people underneath the benches/couches/chairs for the screenshot.

 

◊ bartolimu

We would need to somehow fit a paladin inside a tree to truly show what this fight is capable of.

 

◊ Quigon

Now you know how I feel about archifun.

Good fights are ones like reliquary where execution is all that matters. When there isn't much to be helped about a particular death, then fuck that fight. Shahraz is supposedly the hardest fight in BT, and afaik, its not because of anything other than luck. I haven't even done the fight yet and you know my sentiments on the matter

 

Ghando

We've been able to kill Archimonde in decent time the last 2 weeks since the changes...8 wipes last week and 6 this week. It's not great but once you consider that he has no trash, it's not bad either. Honestly I will take Archimonde over Shahraz absolutely any day of the week...if only for the reason that I don't need to slam mana pots just to attempt Archimonde.

 

◊ Praetorian

The key point with the Archi wipes is that all of them were explainable and avoidable. A couple were due to new people who hadn't done the fight before and messed up Tears. A couple were due to positioning fuckups and miscommunications. The first attempt that all of us really played well, he died.

With Shahraz, on the other hand, we'd have so many attempts where everything was going really well for a few minutes, no mistakes made, and then something ridiculous would happen and it's back to square one.

 

Ghando

(whistles innocently)

 

◊ Quigon

And that is different than archimonde how? There are guilds that 1-2 shot shahraz and wipe all night on archimonde with Illidan dead - no one 1-2 shots archimonde. Shahraz is much more repeatable by most guilds - but can wipe you if you get unlucky. The key point is that both fights suck, and just cause you're better at one than the other doesn't change that; all the deaths are readily explainable, but both have unavoidable deaths.

Unless being gripped in mid air, being feared in mid air, landing in a doomfire, and being feared further away from the raid is avoidable. Or the MT being instagibbed (2 seconds for 28k hp - with probably more armor and HP than anyone). I fail to see the difference, especially with soul charge in play.

 

◊ Praetorian

It just doesn't match my experience with the fight. Maybe it's because we have ~4 shamans as part of every raid no matter what we're raiding? We're light on decursers, though (had 3 total last week -- 1 feral druid, 1 resto druid, 1 mage). After every Archimonde wipe I can say, "You should've done X there" and that's the reason for our wipe. I expect to one-shot or two-shot Archimonde in a few weeks if nothing changes, once we aren't bringing anyone new to the fight. Also FWIW we've literally never, ever had our MT die until after multiple soul charges had gone off and we'd called a wipe, and we keep CoR on Archimonde full-time. Not sure what's happening with you guys. The worst strings I've seen are things like:

But that's completely, completely healable.

On Shahraz, I can't really say "you should've done X" in response to a port into a corner/object, or an MT instagib. I'm sure she'll get better with more practice, simply because we'll kill her on the first pull when nothing absurd happens, but it's exceedingly frustrating to learn. When learning, no one is perfect. You always have attempts when people make mistakes. On a well-tuned boss, when you finally have an attempt where everything clicks, you should get your first kill. On Shahraz, we had attempts like that, where I'd be thinking to myself, "Wow, everyone's playing perfectly" and then at 35% something ridiculous happens and that's the end. And then of course it takes a few more attempts to get another pro run going, and then you again have to hope that the RNG doesn't screw you.

 

• Xaviera

Really have to disagree with Quigon and agree with Praetorian here. Archimonde certainly has random annoying elements, but they aren't anywhere near as punishing as the ones on Shahraz. They also aren't AS random. We wipe to Archimonde too, but honestly we aren't playing as perfectly as we should. Whenever we go in with a very serious, buckle-down approach, we kill him pretty soundly.

For Shahraz, you can go in playing super well and serious every attempt and definitely do well, but she has a massive assortment of ability combinations that will wipe you or severely cripple you and then wipe you due to that weakness. (Sustainability fight...). Unless something changed recently, I think you said you haven't done the fight yet and only heard about it, but I'm going to have to only assume... that once you do Mother Shahraz progress, you'll agree it's on a different level entirely from Archimonde.

Our 'repeated kills' have been because our first 1-2 wipes were people playing well and then the encounter saying "You lose now." This week our first wipe was when people got ported near MT and he took massive burst due to shadow beams, FA, and lash. Our second wipe I still haven't figured out, but his (MT's) incoming hits from her went from 5500 to 9900 and those near-10k hits kept up for the next 3 swings and he fell over. I still have no idea what that was since even no demo shout and no ironshield (and no devotion aura) wouldn't equal that much damage. and he wasn't in battle/berserker stance. Shrug!

 

• Snowy

I'll give Blizz props on one thing though.. at least Shahraz isn't broken like C'Thun was, Vashj, etc. And I should note I love the Shahraz fight concept, FA is just neat. It's just to some extent you have to hope your pro attempts and good RNG match up. Even the best attempts can be ruined. Conversely, you can play less than perfect yet sustain it if you're fortunate on the RNG -- but that can only last for so long.

Echoing what Gurg said, I don't think that we've ever had our tank drop over like that at Archimonde, so I'm not sure what's going on there.

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• Fogbug

This might be a dumb question, but do the guilds who have trouble with tank death have their tank stand in doomfire fulltime? Ours moves around to stay out of it, and the other melee adjust accordingly to keep him from getting air bursted. On our first attempts we had issues with tank healing too, but they were pretty much a symptom of standing in the doomfire and taking constant max-strength doomfire ticks

 

Ghando

Agree with Snowy, last reset we had a 1% wipe on Shahraz that very much could have been a kill...not because we played particularly well, but because we played decently and the dice consistently landed our way. The luck factor goes both ways, it just goes too far both ways.