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Old 04/27/07, 10:22 PM   #1
Manniefresh
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Tauren Druid
 
Kil'Jaeden
Most "fun" raid healer?

So for my entire raid career I've only played a Warlock and while I enjoy playing one, I would like to try out healing. I currently have a Druid, Priest, and Paladin in their 30s and have not leveled a Shaman. The more I read about each individual class, the more I get confuse as to what I would want to play. From what I understand, Druids are good for spot raid healing, Paladins are good for main tank healing, and Priests are good for all-around healing. While all of those classes have other viable builds, I would probably stick with healing at 70 since I can just play my Warlock if I get bored of healing.

Currently, I am ruling out Paladin and Shaman since from what I have read is that they tend to alternate between two healing spells and that's about it. Is that correct? Is the biggest difference between Druids and Priests that Druids use more HoTs while Priests use more direct heals? I would appreciate any response on this and more specifically any Warlocks who also play a healing class. Thank you.

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Old 04/27/07, 11:02 PM   #2
Bekah
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Leveling a priest is much more like leveling a warlock, and any shadow tree time you spend will feel familiar although limited. Priests have less than 10 damage spells, warlocks have quite a few more options- the complexity of playing a proper shadow priest is in knowing gearing and learning how to dot cycle- both of which you should have solid experience in... outside of that it's somewhat simple compared to the depth of the spell choice utility of the warlock. Basically- if you can play a warlock well you can probably play a shadow priest without a lot of fuss.

Playing a solid druid from 1-70 requires some time spent in forms and the class is pretty complicated to learn well. You have a lot more options in terms of playstyle at 70 (especially as an alt).

Kinda depends on whether you're looking for something that feels familiar with healing spells- or a class that you need to learn gearing and play for from scratch.

I was a priest first, and rolled a warlock alt =)

Edit: Specifically talking about the fun- honestly it's all healing and whack a mole. Which isn't bad exactly, but I wouldn't try to judge a priest versus a druid in terms of how fun each are in healing unless you have more specific requirements than a variety of healing spells-it's all healing. They're both reasonably complex and rewarding in the end- which you prefer is probably as complicated as trying to explain to a new player which class of mage or warlock they'd rather play. Anything you emphasize is kinda hopeless in really explaining the dynamics of the differences in playstyle. "Well warlocks get a pet and dots.... mages get big explosions." It's about as helpful as saying druids get hots and priests use direct heals. It's oversimple... and impossible to explain why someone is just going to *love* one class over the other.

I raided at 60 on a priest (main), a warlock(alt), and a mage(alt)- and again at 70 on both my mage(current main) and my priest(main at the start of tbc). I couldn't stand raiding on my warlock, but I enjoyed my time as a shadow priest. Even more odd- I didn't like my warlock in raids but I adored my mage... and it had nothing to do with dots or pets or direct damage and more to do with the utility spells and flavor of the classes. It's all a bit of a coin toss unless you get the chance to play all of your options at a reasonably high level to really compare. I'd probably still be playing my priest as my main if I hadn't spent time at 60+ playing my mage and falling in love with the class-if the only class I'd had to compare to priest was warlock.

Last edited by Bekah : 04/27/07 at 11:12 PM.

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Old 04/27/07, 11:22 PM   #3
GokieKS
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Citania
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My main is (and will likely remain until I stop playing WoW) a warlock, but I've leveled both a druid and a priest to 60 (hasn't really revisited either since TBC), and tried both the DPS (feral/shadow) and healing (resto/holy) side of each class. I've raided (MC/BWL/some AQ40) with the priest, but the druid, being Alliance when pretty much all my other characters are Horde, has only gone as far as the level 60 5-mans.

Anyway, between the two... I'd have to say that I liked the healing aspect better as a priest, but enjoyed the overall playing experience of a druid more. The versatility of that class is just so much fun to me.

As for the DPS side of things, I found playing as a Shadow Priest, especially coming from a warlock background, to be a complete and utter bore. But then again, I've thought the same for most of the other DPS classes I've tried (have a mage and enhancement shaman in mid-60s, and have played a hunter to 60) - none of them offer the appeal the warlock class does.

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Old 04/28/07, 12:39 AM   #4
Melador
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I've only played priest and druid at 60+, but I think priests definitely have the most versatile spells -- good single-target heals, a pre-emtive heal, an emergency "heal", a good HoT, and a couple party healing spells.

Druids don't really have any party heals (well, one every ten minutes), but they have big single-target heals, a couple HoTs, and two emergency heals, making them pretty interesting to play as a healer.

Paladins have all single-target heals (afaik), so they probably not terribly interesting from a healing variation point of view.

I can't speak to shaman healing at all, having only rarely raided with them in a healing capacity.

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Old 04/28/07, 12:42 AM   #5
Aiiane
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Blood Elf Warlock
 
Garona
Priests are a bit more versatile in the healing department specifically, but overall the druid has more versatility. So if all you're leveling the character for is raiding, I'd suggest a priest - but if you're actually leveling the character to play, try a druid.

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Old 04/28/07, 1:03 AM   #6
Manniefresh
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At the moment, I'm not really planning on playing any of these characters beyond raids, but given the way I change my mind, who knows what will happen with that. I'm planning on leveling to 60 normally and then instancing from 60-70 to maximize rep and gold from quests at 70. I'm kinda leaning towards a Priest right now. I do enjoy the complexity of playing a Druid but it really seems like a huge pain in the ass to get gear for a well-rounded spec.

Thank you for all your information. You have no idea how frustrating it's been for me not being able to decide on an alt. Any other information anyone has would be greatly appreciated. Learning what I need in healing gear is going to be fun!

Last edited by Manniefresh : 04/28/07 at 1:09 AM. Reason: more stuff

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Old 04/28/07, 1:15 AM   #7
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Old 04/28/07, 1:33 AM   #8
 Leene
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Originally Posted by Manniefresh View Post
Currently, I am ruling out Paladin and Shaman since from what I have read is that they tend to alternate between two healing spells and that's about it. Is that correct?
Paladins only really have two healing spells (Unless you count Holy Shock, which is terrible for healing), so yes you do alternate between these two. Healing as a paladin in raids can be either really boring or slightly more interesting, all depending on what type of healing role you're assigned. I tend to enjoy raid healing far more then staring at one of the tanks healthbars during an entire boss fight. On certain fights you might get to do a little bit of "extra" work, take for instance Maiden, where you get to use BoSac and solo heal the tank during repentance. But all in all, it's not the most exciting class to play in a raid.

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Old 04/28/07, 2:06 AM   #9
Noel
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The allure of Paladin raid healing is partly in longevity, and party in the tools you have to allow you to heal when others cannot. With Light's Grace and the 4pc T5 set bonus you can also kick out a large heal with a 1.75 cast time, which provides amazing HPS. Even without the T5 bonus HPS is high.

Druids must shift into bear to really take hits, and priests are squishy, while a Paladin can take a few hits from a boss add as an example. Divine Shield allows you to be the one healer who can pay attention to purely healing in dicey situations, to preemptively shield before an AoE silence, or bubble out of Gruul's reverberation.

Having improved righteous fury also allows you to purposely pick up healing aggro to save your other healers that spot on the threat table.

Raid healing as a paladin tends to be either spitting out massive HPS at moderate efficiency spamming Holy Light, or using Flash of Light with woven in low rank Holy Lights to keep up Light's Grace, and throwing in a max Holy Light when needed. This second style will often leave you with mana when other healers are dry near the end of the fight.

That being said, I would roll a Druid. Two distinct healing styles, and the ability to play around with Feral or Balance and have at least one other option for a viable raiding spec. Currently ret and prot paladins are debatedly a joke in the high end, and why play warlock lite when you have a real one.

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Old 04/28/07, 3:02 AM   #10
Corkscrew
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Originally Posted by Noel View Post
Currently ret and prot paladins are debatedly a joke in the high end, and why play warlock lite when you have a real one.
Prot paladins can make decent choices for a tank, and saying a shadow priest is a warlock lite is completely disregarding all utility they bring to a raid (VE, VT, Misery, Shadow Weaving). Even nerfed next patch, they'll still be one of the best hybrids you can choose for a raid. Certainly up there with feral druids, and far better than a Moonkin.

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Old 04/28/07, 3:17 AM   #11
Manniefresh
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Tauren Druid
 
Kil'Jaeden
How well would a Swiftmend Druid perform as a main healer with a competant tank in a random heroic?

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Old 04/28/07, 3:27 AM   #12
GokieKS
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Originally Posted by Corkscrew View Post
saying a shadow priest is a warlock lite is completely disregarding all utility they bring to a raid (VE, VT, Misery, Shadow Weaving).
I think when people refer to shadow-priest as warlock lite, they mean in terms of how the class is played, not what the class can do. In that regard, playing a shadow priest really is like playing a simplified warlock: less DoTs, less nukes, less micro-management (due to not having pets or a unique mana-regen mechanic). I mean, you listed the 4 most important things that a shadow priest bring to a raid, and half of them (Misery and SW) are passive effects. Compare that to playing a warlock, where you have to make the decision of how and when to place each and every debuff (Shadow Embrace being an exception), and I think it's fair to say that the two classes share the same play-style as far as raiding goes, but one is quite a bit simpler than the other.

Last edited by GokieKS : 04/28/07 at 3:28 AM. Reason: Properly finished post.

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Old 04/28/07, 3:28 AM   #13
Kyth
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Originally Posted by Corkscrew View Post
and saying a shadow priest is a warlock lite is completely disregarding all utility they bring to a raid (VE, VT, Misery, Shadow Weaving). Even nerfed next patch, they'll still be one of the best hybrids you can choose for a raid.
Which doesn't necessarily make them fun, which is what people were talking about. Particularly if you already have a warlock .

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Old 04/28/07, 3:39 AM   #14
Quigon
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Based on experience and turnover in the roles my answer would be shaman. Not going to even bother with the whole speel about how your mileage may vary - I'm assuming you're smart enough to know that.
Edit: actually, maybe not cause you made this silly thread.

Seriously, box a friends account for an easy raid and try it out.

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Old 04/28/07, 3:51 AM   #15
Manniefresh
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I think I was straying from Shaman because I didn't really like leveling one back in the day. Are Enhancement Shamans now around the same leveling speed as Shadow Priests, Protection Paladins, and Feral Druids?

And the only reason why this silly thread was made is because I'm stuck at work for 15 hours =P

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Old 04/28/07, 4:02 AM   #16
Quigon
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Shamans level quickly - in 90% of the cases your access to groups and you drive and path you choose largely governs your exp per hour. I'm not saying go shaman, thats just my bias opinion on the matter.
Protection paladin leveling must be fun though

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Old 04/28/07, 4:11 AM   #17
Kazanir
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Mal'Ganis
Shaman seem to be, in my view, one of the most rewarding classes to play in a raid setting as a healer. Between their three major heals (HW, LHW, and bananabeam) they also have to manage totems, use of elementals and bloodlusts, they can take a couple hits better than a priest, effectively toss on a two-hander and melee or a caster mace and zap things, etc. etc. It seems like it would be a much more rewarding healing class to play than a paladin or even druid due to the utility available and required in almost all raids. Then again, we sometimes run a 25-man raid with 5 or 6 shaman because all of our totem team kicks some major ass in healing and killing stuff.

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Old 04/28/07, 4:31 AM   #18
Manniefresh
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Tauren Druid
 
Kil'Jaeden
Originally Posted by Quigon View Post
Protection paladin leveling must be fun though
Protection Paladin leveling was really interesting when I first started since it was so different but it got really boring. I fell asleep a few times while leveling after raids so I kinda put the Paladin on the backburner.

As far as Shamans go, I think my guild has two that regularly attend raids so one more would definitely be welcome. I guess I'll give a Shaman a chance tonight and see what's up. All I need to decide on a rapper name for him/her.

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Old 04/28/07, 4:41 AM   #19
Tacitus
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Originally Posted by Manniefresh View Post
Protection Paladin leveling was really interesting when I first started since it was so different but it got really boring. I fell asleep a few times while leveling after raids so I kinda put the Paladin on the backburner.

As far as Shamans go, I think my guild has two that regularly attend raids so one more would definitely be welcome. I guess I'll give a Shaman a chance tonight and see what's up. All I need to decide on a rapper name for him/her.
If you roll an orc, there's only one possible name...

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Old 04/28/07, 5:03 AM   #20
Thelyna
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Originally Posted by Manniefresh View Post
How well would a Swiftmend Druid perform as a main healer with a competant tank in a random heroic?
You should be fine, assuming your group is appropriately geared and skilled for the content.

Tree druids don't really fare that well in output situations (i.e. when HT is needed), but if you went balance/resto HT spec you'd be perfectly fine as a heroic healer.

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Old 04/28/07, 5:32 AM   #21
Kallisti
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Originally Posted by Manniefresh View Post
How well would a Swiftmend Druid perform as a main healer with a competant tank in a random heroic?
Depends alot on which heroic. Shattered Halls as the only healer must be terrible. Maybe not even because of the amount that needs to be healed but to the fact that no tank can fight against that heal aggro in an eight mob pull...

I would say paladins are the only healing class right now which can solo-heal almost every heroic instance. It's incredible easy as a paladin if you played another healing class before... An Add? 6 sec instant stun.. more adds? 12 sec immunity... a DD going down too fast? blessing of protection... tank snared? blessing of freedom... and now add the incredible buffs, 10k more armor and 50% healing aggro. Just insane for heroic instances.

As a druid, it's pretty funny how much my healing style changed and how different 5 mans are compared to raids.

Back in MC/BWL/AQ/Naxx, you would spam rank 4/7/max healing touch, primarily on tanks, cancelling if it would lead to overheal and keep up rejuvenation on the tank to be able to swiftmend it on dmg spikes. For huge hits, you always had natures swiftness and max rank healing touch. Healing touch was just everything and beside some rejuvenation, no serious druid used regrowth in bossfights (except for vael), when the two instants were ready. With decent reaction times, it was easy to compete with priests or paladins in the pure amount of heal (if you played together and not against each other). If you asked the tanks, they still said that when it was close, almost everytime it was a druid who saved their life (Swiftmend, Nature's Swiftness, or just well-timed HT).

When i heared about the tree of life for the first time, it sounded really ridicolous to me. No more healing touch? no way! My idea to deal with this change was a balance/resto mix like 34/0/27 to be able to dps and play a viable hybrid sometimes, but also heal effectively with healing touch. Dreamstate gives insane manareg, while lunar guidance and moonglow are similar to tranquil spirit and gift of nature.

When i hit 70 and we only played all those heroic instances, i made my first experiences with Lifebloom and thought "why not give the tree a try?". That was the last time, i unlearned my talents.

Lifebloom is fantastic. In ToL it has a HPM ratio of ~17 (!) with my current gear. Healing Touch has 6-8 HPM, depending on the rank, regrowth is similar (8), if the hot does not overheal, rejuvenation as well (8-9). Swiftmend is also efficent, if it is used on the last ticks of the consumed hot. The most important thing about the ToL is neither the aura nor the snare or the reduction to hots. It's 20% less mana cost for hots.

I don't know if there is any healing spell ingame which is as mana efficient as lifebloom (well, maybe holy light before the illumination nerf?) and it scares me that the second and third stack will benefit from +heal after the patch. That's 700 heal every second I you keep the stack up. Well you drop your 5sec rule mana regeneration for it, but on a single target, you can keep it up without losing mana... It will heal 5k life for 176 mana. Just incredible. Sure, it's a hot and it might result in a lot of overheal, but if your raid gets used to it and watches and "respects" hots (no flash of light on -2k life targets with lb on them please!), it's wonderful.

Druids were spot healers back pre-tbc, yes. Actually, this has changed a lot. We can still spot heal well. Healing Touch still rocks! We can still heal huge amounts (12k crits on warlocks are not hard, with normal raid equip, i crit tanks for over 8k). But today, we are most efficient for raid healing and pushing everyone to max life.

Compare SW Stats with a good Tree Druid at Netherspite to other healers. It's hillarious. If we run Karazhan with our best priest, best paladin and me as a tree, we heal a similar amount overall (well, usually me 5-15% in front, then pala, then priest), if we heal together and not against each other (not interfering hots, not spamming into another one's heals, using Healers Assist [shows who heals who] as a help to reduce overheal to less than 10-15%). But on the netherspite fight, a Tree of Life is so much in advance.. just spam lifebloom one everyone (or regrowth if you are standing in the green beam of course) to heal against the aura. This way a ToL will heal twice as much as the paladin or the priest, even if they are pretty good healers. Imho the sw stats snapshot of that fight is the definite proof that trees are really wonderful raid healers if there is some damage incoming to several players.

Currently it's surely the best to let Lifebloom tick out. It gets 46% of your +heal as hot and 46% as final heal, which is 92% of your +heal on a 1.5 sec cast for 176 mana.... with 2.1 it will make more sense to keep it up on tanks in theory, but in reality, i think it won't heal alot more than before. There will be alot more hot-overheal and lifebloom will be a better protection against damage spikes, but the total heal will not increase as dramatically as in theory. At least I hope so, because they would probably nerf the +heal coefficent if not.

In 5man groups, there are two things which annoy.
1) Can't play Tree.
The tree is really wonderful, but it only becomes really strong, if you have someone with direct heals, to support. That one will benefit from your aura, while you heal the raid, provide a continous healstream and save the tank at damage spikes with ticking hots and instants.
It's a bit sad that you cannot use the tree if you are the only healer in a heroic instance, because a lot of pulls require you to spam max rank HT, just because of instane incoming damage. You can still start every fight as tree, spam 2-3 hots and then shift out and continue with HT if it's too hard.
2) Healing Aggro.
The biggest issue as healing druid at all. There is no paladin-halfed aggro, there is no binding heal and no fade ability, no shield, no divine shield, no instant stun (bearform costs you 1k mana, if you want to stun, you have to hit enrage, which generates even more aggro, if you shift, you basically give the chance up to heal yourself...).

Solo healing 5 mans as a druid is not really fun. Having a paladin as partner can be wonderful for some parts (Shattered halls after nethecurse, before it's damn boring!), but really boring if the pala could also do it alone. Having a Shadow Priest who helps in harder fights is probably the most interesting combination, an elemental shaman should work fine too.

Raid healing on the other hand is wonderful. I still love my druid. I adapted to the role change from a direct heal spot healer to a hot machine (pre-tbc we laughed about druids who only used hots and were miles behind every other healer in terms of efficiency and overall healing, now it's the way to go ), and i love it. If it is needed, i can still pop back to how i played before. E.g. on Gruul, i would start as a tree and keep hots on the tank until 6 growths and then start using HT, increasing the rank with the time, ending at growth 11-12 (atm, we are still running with 5-7 randoms, since our guild is slowly growign) with max rank Healing touch. Mana is never an issue and i can't complain that i have to use a lot of pots. It's fine. There are moments where every cooldown, including dark runes is used, but normally it's 1-2 pots on heavy fights and you can still heal fine and not less than others. Just play efficient.

-> I really love my druid, i love druidic healing. Priests are fine too and you have a lot less aggro issues. But hots ticking for 1khps, having 2 emergency instants and the biggest heals ingame is also pretty cool.

Well, so much for my personal experience and the changes that druids had to see in the past, if you are still awake after reading all this. Maybe it helps you.

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Old 04/28/07, 6:40 AM   #22
Pyria
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Originally Posted by Quigon View Post
Shamans level quickly - in 90% of the cases your access to groups and you drive and path you choose largely governs your exp per hour. I'm not saying go shaman, thats just my bias opinion on the matter.
Protection paladin leveling must be fun though
I levelled my pally as Prot from 60-70. It was amusing at first (Let yourself get beaten down to Ardent Defender health, put up a Seal of Light, and you're immortal), but it gets samey fast and I really wouldn't try it without TBC quest reward itemization. On the other hand, it's hands down the most alt tab friendly levelling I've ever done.

Playing my protadin as alt for five-mans is also far more fun than I expected it to be, they may come up very short in raids but you can demolish regular instances at incredible speed with a pally tank and some AoE.

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Old 04/28/07, 6:59 AM   #23
Donjo
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Troll Shaman
 
Scilla
Shaman was my old main pre-TBC and I played him in beta some more but went for mage when expansion actually came out. I would still say that they are my favorite healers mainly because they are rarely assigned to main heal someone in a raid. I think it is a lot more fun to go around tossing chain heals at all the different groups taking AoE damage, make sure you have the right totems up, keeping ES on the tank for extra aggro and bloodlust at the right time than it is to stress over one person's health bar while pushing one button and canceling your spell at the last second if it isn't needed.

Don't underestimate the ability of healing stream totem either, many shaman do. A healing stream totem on a well geared shaman will tick anywhere from 100-150 every 2 seconds. Sure it's no shadow priest but it is the most efficient heal in the game considering you are spending a whopping 95 mana to cast it (untalented).

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Old 04/28/07, 7:39 AM   #24
Norfair
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Night Elf Druid
 
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My main is a druid and I have a level 60 priest alt (hardly touched it since TBC came). I did raid a bit with my priest, as it is a dwarf priest, so she has seen various Nefarian kills.

Both healers are fun. The thing that annoys me the most about the priest is the big, slow heals like you have with a druid. Especially when you are healing tanks, it feels good when you do a huge heal on the tank and really see his life come back in huge chunks, makes you feel like you are making a difference. Espeically pre-TBC, I often feel that I am the lifesaver, seeing that our paladins or priests try to heal up the tank and waiting for that big heal from me.

In 5-mans, I sometimes get frustrated with my druid a lot. Priests have a lot more tools than druids have, especially when it comes down to healing more people at the same time. Sure, druids can HoT everyone, but if 3-4 people are taking damage, it takes you at least 6 seconds before all of them have a HoT on them, and even longer before all of them have received some reasonable healing. Prayer of Healing is way superior to this, and some battles are therefore crazy as a druid.
Another drawback that has been mentioned before is the aggro. A lot of people talk about "get a decent tank" or whatever, but sometimes shit happens (like yesterday in heroic Steamvault, our tank got feared 24/7 at a specific group, when zerker rage ends, you are basically screwed). I can't fear, I can't fade, I can't bubble. Only thing for me to do I go bearform, but basically you are a sitting duck and it only postpones your death. Tip: spec furor, if you get aggro from 1 mob, you can stun it immediately, so you can shift out and cyclone it.
Last but certainly not least, the fact that we can't resurrect anyone is just annoying. If someone dies and you don't have another healing class with you, that person has to walk back. In raids I don't think you will find this a problem at all though, having to resurrect after each wipe can be kinda tiring instead.

With that said though, I love healing on my druid a lot, more than I did on my priest (else I would've made that my new main character when TBC came out). But like someone already said, this stuff is kinda personal, and sometimes it is hard to explain why you like a class over a different class. Best thing to do is to try it for yourself, I think that with neither priest or druid you will get bored as a healer. The shaman and paladin do provide more other utilities though, if that is what you are after, but don't have much versatility between pure healing spells.

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Old 04/28/07, 7:52 AM   #25
Thelyna
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Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
As a paladin with a priest alt, raid healing (and to some extent 5-man healing) is boring on my paladin, just pick either flash or holy light .. priests just have so many more tools when it comes to five-man healing it's not funny (hell, I did a run earlier today where the warrior and druid (that only ever shifted out of cat to go to bear, and vice versa) both outhealed me, since I was basically leaning on PoM+Renew for everything except the last boss).

Also, I found levelling as a ret paladin pretty much tortuous (or tortoise-like, one of the two), whereas my priest felt much easier (I'm having to be careful in instances on my priest now because my defense rating is so low that everything crushes me, that's how infrequently I actually got hit on my priest while levelling), that despite the fact Thel had BWL/early-AQ DPS gear, whereas my priest started out with pretty trashy l60 instance blues (<200 dmg unbuffed).

However, as Norfair said, it's hard to really make any good comparisons since so much of it is personal preference (hell, one of my guildies has three druids 60 or above ...).

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