tristantio

Below is possibly the most simple yet definitely the most effective change that could be done to balance warlocks in small scale PvP and DoT gib teams.

What I would propose is that the Felhunter become the new 41 point demonology talent instead of the Felguard (and make Felguard a baseline pet).

Comparing the two pets:
Felhunter:
Almost exclusively a PvP pet, little use in PvE
Extremely powerful in PvP due to magic removal (offensive/defensive) and Spell Lock
Extremely difficult to CC/kill with magic in PvP due to high resists even without 5/5 Master Demonologist

Felguard:
Situationally useful in PvP
Easy target to kill/banish in PvP
In PvE offers a hybrid between the Voidwalker and Succubus

Now, at first glance it might seem overpowered for affliction or destruction warlocks to have a Felguard available, however a Felguard with none of the demonology talents would be quite weak and not exactly the melee DPS'er it is currently with 41 in demonology. In fact, with a hybrid spec such as my own (26/35/0) my Felhunter is currently capable of doing almost as much damage as a Felguard over the course of a match (and if you figure in all the shields/HoTs it eats to heal itself, it's more effective).

In 5v5 this solves: Making this change would mean 2xAffliction Warlock, 1x Shadow priest, 1x Paladin, 1x Rogue teams only had one form of silence, as opposed to 3 forms of silence.

In 2v2 this removes one of the deadliest warlock specs (the 23/38/0 or 27/34/0 or 26/35/0 hybrid specs) because the power of the hybrid spec is that the Felhunter provides such insane magic resists and constantly keeps himself up with ease. If a Felguard were being used, it would allow the enemy team to kill the Felguard (twice with instant demon summon) and then work on the warlock. As it is, it's almost impossible for another 2v2 team to kill one if it's receiving any healing at all.

Full demonology warlocks would be unaffected and still have both pets available at their disposal.

 

Caal

Uhhh?

That's funny, because I thought warlocks were there to outlast in 2v2 and in many cases, 3v3?

You claiming your felhunter is going to be comparable damage is pretty lollerific. If it perfectly devoured everything every cooldown, it still wouldn't even sort of be close.

 

tristantio

I was stating an untalented Felguard (if possible) would be severely lacking in DPS when comparing to what it does talented, since it would lose out on 20% physical damage, 5% master demonologist damage, 5% soul link damage, and 5% demonic tactics crit. Overall a Felguard doing only 70% of it's current damage (and 5% less crit) wouldn't be that powerful of a melee pet. As it is, the Felguard barely pulls ahead of the succubus in melee dps on a single target if both are fully talented.

Also one of the main reasons warlocks are so powerful is because of the Felhunter, which is why it's used almost exclusively in PvP. Putting the Felhunter out of reach of more warlocks and only available for full demonology warlocks would even this out to a large degree.

 

Kullulu

Even assuming you had a case that locks were overpowered primarily based on the felhunter pet, the fact that the felhunter is a quested reward and an intregral portion of warlock play for 3 years means the likelyhood of blizzard adopting your solution is slim.

It would free me up to go 0/40/21 at least.

 

tristantio

The felhunter story line for the quest could easily be changed to felguard.

Also the paladin skill Illumination was in game since release, and was just recently nerfed, despite it having been fine for over 2 years.

 

yuri

illumination was the backbone of paladin holy tree for 2years and didnt stop blizzard from killing it

 

Kullulu

Oh, I understand it could be theoretically changed. It's one thing to make a talent a baseline ability, quite another for a baseline ability to become a talent. The former they've done precious few times, the latter has never been done.

edit:

Illumination is just a talent that was nerfed. Talents get buffed/nerfed periodically for balance purposes. It would be as if they gave all paladins illumination, but divine shield took a 41 point holy talent. It's arguable whether or not it would fix a purported imbalance, and would anger paladins who had used DS since release.

More importantly, this is a pvp only fix. It kills a good portion of pve effectiveness of dispel/silence. It's important for warlocks to have that base functionality at a pve level to allow them to be used interchangably with mages and shadow priests for smaller group content.

 

Bogeywoman

I read EJ precisely so I can avoid reading the thrice-hourly ill-thought-out 'balance' warlock nerf suggestions under guise of helpful warlock mains.

Warlock PVP has been 'balanced' in the last 12 patches, including yet more recent nerfs to fear AND the felhunter. Your suggestion would utterly destroy PVE (hello 0/40/21). And as others have said, without the talents the succubus is a far better pet than a felguard.

 

tristantio

"Others" did not say the succubus untalented is superior to the felguard, or close to it in damage, I had said that (original poster). Also it's laughable that you would accuse me of being under the guise of a warlock main. While I have a level 70 warrior and paladin as well as my warlock, my warlock is definitely my main. While I may not be the highest rated warlock in Wow my arena ratings on every team setup are higher than yours, and my games played for the week in arena on my warlock are consistently active.

Unlike you, I can admit that warlocks have a definite dominance in PvP, however instead of crying about DoTs being the problem (when they really aren't) I can admit that if the felhunter were more rare among locks it would alleviate most the lock complaints.

Also as a 7/43/11 spec changing the talents in this way would have no direct impact on you whatsoever, as you would still have the exact same spells you do currently.


Edit: Also this is not a nerf warlocks thread, that would be ridiculous as I am a warlock and enjoy being a warlock. It's an idea that would add more variety and variation between warlock specs in both PvP and PvE, as well as squashing some of the nerf complaints heard about warlocks.

 

Bogeywoman

When someone says "others", they refer to "others than themselves." Helpful note for the future.

Warlocks don't have a definite dominance in PVP. All you have to do to learn this simple fact is look at the stats people constantly post in the official forums. Warlocks make up a smaller percentage of the top 5v5 teams than would be predicted by their population. And -- no surprise to you, I imagine -- paladins and warriors are drastically overrepresented. So enough crying about warlocks and pvp.

But the dumbest part of your idea is that PVE would be completely broken. If every warlock could spec 0/40/21, get ruin and an active fully buffed soul linked MD DT felguard, there would be rioting in the streets. Let's see, take a mage -- or a self sustaining caster that hits harder than a mage, has three times the survivability, and a 300 dps pet? If you think mages cry now, wait until you put that one up on the patch notes.

Even if you were to postulate, incorrectly, that the 5 second spell lock is why people don't like warlocks (hint: it's fear, dots, and mass hysteria), and that warlocks need "balancing" (what a dumb loaded word) in pvp (they don't), giving them utter dominance in pve is not the way to do it.

I know, I have an idea...why don't we lower the silence time on felhunters from 8 seconds to 5?

 

• frmorrison

This, making Felguard anything other than a 41 point talent would destroy PvE, in that Warlocks would push out Mages from their raiding spots (assuming equally geared characters) and make people want to stack Warlocks. FG has to be 41 Demo to balance PvE.


Felhunter is fine for PvP, he doesn't do much damage (like 80 dps) but has utilty with spell lock, devour magic, and stealth detection.

 

tristantio

I thought 0/21/40 was the top raid dps spec as gear improves because of scaling?

It's backed up in the damage calculators and mentioned numerous times over on the PvE boards here.

I don't see how a 0/40/21 spec with a felguard buffed up would be that much more in dps as compared to a 0/40/21 spec using a succubus who gives 5% more shadow damage than the felguard does, unless you actually would plan to rely on the felguard's melee dps.

 

◊ Kaubel

We've typically reserved our forums for current gaming issues, raiding collaboration, etc, and not threads that center around personal wish lists. And if everyone got the green light to make a "good idea" thread, there'd be nothing but loud, extraneous clutter, and mass panic would ensue.

So unless you're super influential and have a batphone to Blizzard's HQ sitting on your desk, this really isn't a good topic.