MTing & the DST

constantius · 08/04/07, 12:15 AM

Our third-ever DST dropped tonight (we're 6/6 SSC, 2/4 TK), and our MT wanted it very badly (bid a massive amount of dkp on it). Ignoring the ethics and/or comments on our dkp system, which is what it is, I'm curious about the following:

1) Is taking DST, as a full protection warrrior, who MTs all our content, justified, for use as a TPS increaser on certain fights?
2) If so, what sort of threat increase can I expect from a tank using DST?
3) Is DST more threat than, say, Romulo's Poison Vial (for the +hit)?
4) Even as a TPS increaser, it is *enough* of one to justify taking it from a rogue/fury warrior/enh shaman?
5) Can you suggest what fights it will be useful for in our future, as we move on to BT/HS content (if any)?

Cromfel · 08/04/07, 12:21 AM

Work, get paid, shop something nice for your self as reward for the hard work. I dont think this is suitable topic as its own. Loot drama always stinks, specially when DKP is there to solve the issues. May want to throw this into the DST topic?

Dragonspine Trophy Analysis

If you are really interested in the trinket performance, be it threat producing instead of the DPS, that may be best place for it.

constantius · 08/04/07, 12:33 AM

Sure; didn't want to clutter up discussion of its pure dps performance (which seemed to be what the analysis was) with a digression. I'll repost; delete this thread, moderators.

Lambach · 08/04/07, 2:20 AM

He just loot whored bro. Your GM needs to stop that before it happens. STraigiht dkp system like that needs to get fixed. If hes getting passed tanking gear and still took this, its an incredibly huge ethics issue. This seems on the border of gquit material for your dps players. Im pretty stunned that it wasnt stopped before it happened.

Oneiros · 08/04/07, 2:27 AM

If you're running a straight bidding system, its their fault for not bidding more. If people are passing him the tank loot (so he gets all upgrades for say 1 point) and thus he can accumulate tons of points while still getting all his necessary tank gear, thats something that should be dealt with. As much as people like to whine about everything under the sun, one item going to someone who was willing to spend their points on it is not going to make or break things 99% of the time.

constantius · 08/04/07, 2:36 AM

He didn't win the item, just bid a massive amount on it. The GL stepped in and told him he wasn't allowed to take it, which stirred up a massive argument where he tried to justify how the proc is the same as the 4-piece T5.

He's also not getting passed items -- all items are up for bid, so he bids on the bracers/shield/etc that drop. Unfortunately, most tank items are limited pool -- there's only 3 people in the raid interested in it, so the tanks accumulate a fair bit of dkp. This lets them occasionally bid up dps toys. We're currently arguing over whether this is a good thing.

If you have anything constructive to say about the pure theorycrafting question of : is DST a good TPS increaser for a tank in 25-man content?

... then head over Dragonspine Trophy Analysis and post.

Jabez · 08/04/07, 2:47 AM

I'm not gonna go into whether or not it is a good tank item(simply because all the common sense i can find in myself dictates i don't even think the thought), but him wanting that item over a dpser, and being willing to loot it, just shows how incredibly shortsighted and narrow minded he is. You can compare it with a rogue taking The Unbreakable Will over a tank because its a 100 dps wpn. You simply just don't do it, because others will benefit more from it then you

• Theras · 08/04/07, 4:34 AM

It's not even a matter of who can use the item "best" (since that opens up a whole different can of worms with off-spec hybrids). Players should loot items for the role they chose first, and not loot items over deserving players that want upgrades for their chosen role. You're a tank? You loot tank gear. You're a tank who wants DPS gear? The DPS gets it first, then you can pick away at it.

If your players won't address this on their own, then your DKP system needs to take it into account. It's just that simple.

◊ Xerophyte · 08/04/07, 4:55 AM

I don't think she's short-sighted and narrow-minded - heck, especially not narrow-minded, how many tanks do you know that even consider haste when listing threat stats? - as much as possibly a bit misinformed. Let's see what a DST actually does for tanking before pointing fingers, at least...

I did a few quick approximations in the warrior TPS sheet (moo) and got the benefit of a DTS at around 30-40 TPS (8% average haste - i.e. 15 seconds uptime/minute - and ~450 TPS from autoattack & HS before haste). That's comparable to about 3%-4% to hit (50ish rating, I think?) or 150-200 block value, in a situation where you're in no way rage-limited. If my approximations are valid then DST is going to be better threat than Romulo's or the Autoblocker in those situations.

That approximation is likely off by 20% or so one way or another but I'm fairly comfortable in saying that your bidding tank has a valid point: haste rating is a good warrior threat stat when HS-spamming. However, the fact of the matter is that if you've got the rage to HS-spam in the first place then you're A) likely not producing insufficient threat and B) taking sufficient damage that you should probably be using a regular tanking trinket instead of a threat trinket. Add to that the fact that the Dragonspine such a massive upgrade for your physical dps and I very much agree that it's not justified for such a niche application. It's good thinking on the tank's part to consider it in the first place, but she should perhaps have thought it through a little bit further and discussed it with the dps before bidding.

• ikillyouheal · 08/04/07, 4:57 AM

If I'm not mistaken, the prot warrior wanted the DST for TPS gear? It's a great trinket for that, for what it's worth: I equip my DST when OTing Void Reaver!

• Greybone · 08/04/07, 9:04 AM

I really don't see much good coming out of this.