If this isn't supposed to be posted here, just delete, I promise you won't hurt my feelings.

Hello. As you may have guessed, this is a post about pvp on pvp servers. Specifically, battleground pvp. I direct this thread to the core of HWLs on every server who, like myself, still remember the glory days of WSG and AB, who initially were drawn there by gear, certainly, but also the allure of glory and notoriety within their communities. The draw of battlegrounds did not die for many of these people after their grinds were over. They returned to WSG and AB months and even years after they'd attained the ultimate honor ranking, for the love of PvP.

Though I didn't fully understand why until BC came out, I, and many others, have come to the conclusion that objective-based PvP is the only real skill that exists in WoW PvP. I'm one of those on Mannoroth who still returns to the battlegrounds with the same fervor as we did 2 years ago, and I know there are more of us on other realms.
This post was inspired by this year's blizzcon, which announced the guild-based battleground ranking system that will be implemented in WotLK.

Thanks for your time.

Arenas have a fairly clear objective : Make the other guy dead. No stupid flags, no stupid nodes, no watching an Alliance druid kite around the GY with the flag.

I don't think people really flame that often here, as this isn't the WOW general forums, but I'm not sure of this type of thread fits here, as it sounds like guild recruitment.

Where did I say anything about a guild? O.o

I never said arena's objectives were unclear. I was trying to say I think sometimes people who excel at arenas are deficient in other areas of PvP, namely BGs.

Right here -
Guild, BG Team, whatever you want to call it, you just made a recruitment post.

"I'm hoping to consolidate a highly active and invested team of people who love nothing more than a good game of WSG AB or even AV."

Guild, team, whatever. All the same.

Again, that does not mention a guild at all. Indeed, what purpose would be served by starting a guild now when there is no ratings system and no rewards to be had from running organized BGs?

I've been posting this on the official forums, and I thought I'd bring it here to see what kind of reasoned discussion I could get about BGs vs Arenas.

There are already a few posts here about that inclluding one really good one by EJ members about arena weapons vs PVE and scaling. Check them out.

I couldn't care less about scaling comparisons...

Smells like guild recruitment.

The "good old days" of honor farming and manipulating the top honor spot for the week is over, and good riddance in my humble opinion. The idea of people hating on each other for playing more than this person or getting more honor than this person when it was THEIR LAST WEEK OF HONOR FARMING always irritated me.

I'll edit it. I saw some people really getting into legitimate debates over arena vs BGs on the realm forums where I posted this, thought I'd get a wider audience in on the discussion by posting here.

I do enjoy PvP with an objective, but I've never enjoyed WSG, AB, or even AV all that much. The greatest moment of PvP that I have participated in was a battle in Azshara for Azuregos. Trying to multitask and kill Azuregos while fending off the legions of Orgrimmar was truly as you described it - PvP with an ultimate goal. WSG/AB's goals have been so thoroughly overplayed that capping the flag doesn't even feel remotely satisfying.

I guarentee that you are a part of the minority when you say you still pvp with as much voracity as when the battleground was released - those BGs are outdated. Arena is still relatively new and the ranking system makes it actually seem like you have an ultimate goal - unlike BGs where the only thing you accomplish is 80 bonus honor, and some trash talking rights (if you're into that).

My problem with the BGs is that they've never changed. Even most of the terrain exploits are still there, despite all the complaints about them for a year. Other than AV (removing some NPCs) I can't think of anything else that's really been to done to refine or add on to the BGs we have. Eye of the Storm is just terribly drab, basically just a big killing field. The PTR version that had flying mounts involved seemed a lot more entertaining.

It's funny to me that PvP went from being 4 week long grinds with honor caps(on Manno at least) on something similar to a raid schedule, to playing ten 30 second games a week. The current arena system is basically doing dalies for the people that PvP only for gear. I feel that it was better when everyone had to work for their PvP. Some people that I know opt to completely forgo raids in favor of getting gear from arenas and suffering no repair or consumable costs.

With the advent of people selling arena points which is rampant on Mannoroth and I assume on other servers as well, getting arena gear and doing dalies require the same amount of effort.

I wouldn't mind a WSG League if they had tangible rewards, and CHANGING VENUES. Even small map differences would be nice - maybe one that favors melee, another that favors casters, etc. Hell throw a pond in the middle just to liven things up with a massive damage buff sitting in the middle.