Howitzer

WoW Forums -> @everyone complaining... Good news!!!

Kalgan wrote:
Whats interesting about this for those of you that were not in WOW beta ages ago is that while this change was so very much desired there is an underlying reason why its been asked to be changed for ages now... Back in beta the minimum range for melee attacks used to be 8 yds, which also meant the same for ranged attacks, i.e. - no deadzone. Before retail a change was made to make melee attacks a 5 yd minimum, (because of kiting issues), pvp while running and a character being yards in front of you, (it just didn't look or function correct). However, the ranged 8 yard minimum never changed with that beta patch and the system went live like that, thereby creating the "Deadzone".

Now, after 3 years this huge oversight is apparently going to be fixed in 2.3. Three cheers to a big boost in viability for Hunters in arenas. While I can understand that some classes might be afraid of this change, (mages, locks, etc), I believe it is a very good one considering no other class in the game could be 100% locked-down with 0% chance to defend his/herself as was a Hunter in their deadzone. This is probably one of the most significant Hunter changes ever to be put into a patch. While I am bias, I'm pretty damn thrilled they woke up and got rid of it.

 

Cwealm

Fabulous. Throw in the Beast Within trainable at 70, too.

 

Opioid

I'm not one to shit in the gift horses' mouth normally, but this still feels kinda meh to me, you know? Like, sometimes when classes are fundamentally broken, Blizzard comes up with an amazing solution, it may or may not be good, but it shows innovative thought. Turning the atrocious Balance tree from having the 31-point pathetic AOE talent to making Hurricane standard and introducing the moonkin was a wacky, original change.

It seems like hunters most frequently, of all the classes, receive totally uninspired adjustment fixes that don't show much thought (on top of the muddled class-vision.) I have no problem at all with hunters getting buffed at this point, I just feel kinda sad for them vicariously.

 

D3cadent

If I undersand this correctly (my understanding being that min range for any hunter shots, baring exceptions such as scatter, is now 5 yards instead of 8, thus eliminating the deadzone but maintaing our inability to fire upon a melee-ranged attacker) I dont think this particularly changes viability in arenas at all...

At most it 'equalises' the current imbalance between the running (but snared) hunter, and the chasing (but snared) melee, which currently favours the melee player (The hunter may be at range by his standards and thus cannot melee, yet he cannot shoot at his attacker... meanwhile the chasing melee player continues to attack him with impunity. It's very frustrating).

So essentially you're left with a situation where the hunter can now fire those instant ranged abilities (1 measly arcane shot, a conc shot to pray for a proc if so spec'd and shitty stings), yet is still unable to actually get away because the melee player continues to hit them, applying a hamstring or poison or stun as may be available.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing; as it currently stands, when I run, I'm placed in the untenable position of not being able to melee OR range my attacker and, quite frankly, that's bullshit. So I'm happy for the fix in that respect.

But if this is being touted as a fix to our viability in arenas, I think they're sorely mistaken. It doesnt change LOS issues, doesnt change the fact that we can largely be kept in melee range with relative ease in larger scale PvP, etc.

 

Morrigan

Now give us 5 yd min range on charge/intercept too and I'm okay with it.

 

Rudy

If this coupled with the Divine Shield/Iceblock removing arcane shot and a possible 10 second disarming shot does not make you feel viable I'm not sure what will.

 

D3cadent

If disarming shot becomes a reality AND it is instant, then yes, I agree with you because the chasing melee would no longer be able to apply the snare and I could break off to range. That would make a large difference... However, I still have not seen any concrete evidence that the shot exists.

Second, correct me if Im wrong, but arcane shot is receiving a purge function. It is not becoming a ranged, instant, 6 second cooldown mass-dispell... BoP/F removal, yes. Divine Shield / Iceblock removal, no.

 

PSGarak

Yeah, I'm wondering about other similar deadzones. I know I've kited warriors with this when their intercept is up, and I've seen videos of rogues using that plus the energy system and crippling poison to horrible effect.

I suppose for hunters, once other classes adjust to the change, it effectively becomes "now you can always wing clip" which is a poor consolation prize from an efficacy point of view, but from a player-eye view it's quite a step from not being able to do anything.

 

◊ Lord BEEF

I don't think arcane shot will really function as a divine shield remover. It apparently only removes it if they have no other buffs and you land the arcane shot at the exact same time as the shield goes up

[Hunter]2.3 Arena changes

Check out my friend's bitchin' Lord of the Rings Art

 

Zedd

Nice news, I am not that interested in PVP. and I generally suck at it, but it is allways nice to see. might help the next time a tank decides to move something

Now a better shot system and Im happy

 

Xavias

Interesting change indeed. A reduction in deadzone and not a complete removal would make very little difference, as a snare will achieve the same result. Will be very interesting to see how this pans out.

 

Justyskie

D3cadent has hit the nail on the head with this summary in my opinion, its an incredibly frustrating situation to be in as a hunter in arena.

However (I hate BUT).. Kiting I believe is dead, for whatever reason, and due to the changes in TBC with the increased viability of BM and the pretty standard specc of 41/20 in BM, which alot of hunters willl use in arenas no matter the arguements we have to consider what this would really mean.

No longer will a hunter NOT be able to do some form of damge, this in itself is a nice relief.

Only hunters who have played at 70 will realise the complete frustration associated with the damn deadzone and thats not excluding PvE btw, try doing Lurker, its a pain to be on the middle island and not be able to hit and have to alwasy swim to the outer islands to do ranged, only to have a ranged class shoot you in the head at 5 yrds (thinking about it makes me smile tbh :P) but this is just an example I have at hand atm.

Mages, yes, I think they MAY suffer from this as I can sustain damage on them as soon as they are within 36yrds and with a pet on them to boot, but maybe mages need to revise how they deal with hunters as well in the situations that arise, maybe its time mages used their potential added range to greater effect to outDPS a hunter, now wouldnt that be one for the books!

Locks however will not really change at all. I think they will not really notice a difference tbh baring the 18secs of fear immunity that TBW grants. Still dosent make us harder to kill, and I think ppl for get this, DoTs still tick, Sbolts still hit for whatever they hit for, it just means the hunter wont be sent of screaming and running in circles as was previously the case. Also with their health and mana regen functions and abilities, locks will continue to cuase serious headaches for a hunter.

Remember, melee is still weak an wet on a hunter, as it should be in my opinion, its not really a groundbreaking feature or addition will will cause other classes to suddenly be concernd aout that weapon in the hunters hand!

I have seen reference to a disarm shot, and theres three things to consider with this.

1. its duration, range and appliance, will it work like scatter and how long will it remain, will damage break the "debuff" etc. and whats the CD, 6 secs, 1 min, 10 mins?

2. What tree it will be used in. I susepct MM might see this talent, no backing for this, I just have a feeling, and if not then survival. Where iwll it be in the tree and what points are required to be shuffled to make it worthwhile, and how will it work in PvE or will it be a universal trained skill (heres hoping).

3. It probably wont affect casters, unless it sticks itself in your libram or offhand and nails your hand to the floor :P or even quite literally, and something that makes me want to giggle in glee, it actually causes your arm to drop of, menaing no casting of two handed spells, wouldnt that be really nice (joking) Also the shots use in PvE will be interesting as I am praying its more useful than the silence shot, a talent I reckon is the weakest 41 point talent in the game.


The arcane shot is also interesting I reckon, but remains to be seen just what it will and wont affect in the buffs and debuffing range. It will still cost us mana and range is still required, and also the main bug bear which is LoS still remains as a deterrent for this, though for all intense purposes and with an instant cast shot, it shoudlnt really be a problem to apply it.

I think Blizz have thought quite hard about the hunter, even though my previous opinion would have been one of "thoses sods are gimping us into oblivion" as these projected changes are .... interesting. Its a matter of suck it and see I think, with all classes including the hunter, and even makes things like (oh my god I cant believe im going to say this) the melee hunter become a little more dangerous... that being said it would only be against other hunters after afast arcane and disarm shot, TBW, run at them and clobber them for as long as you can!

Lets see how it goes, but all in I am somewhat heartened by these advances... cautiously!

 

Dalamar

I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

cusface

My thoughts exactly when i saw this.
At level 60 I would have been thrilled about this. At 70 with arena and the anti-kiting and anti-CC abilities put in the game, it felt like the deadzone got expanded from 8-5 to 8-0.
However, this will be really nice in pve in tight spaces ala the start of The Eye.

 

spiderella

This isn't really practical, only fire mages have >36 yard range and even then only with fireball / pyroblast; a hunter that's paying any attention to the mage can get oor in the 3 or 6 seconds it takes to cast these spells (Presence of Mind excluded). Who pvp's with fire anyway (well, besides me, too cheap to respec).

I do worry about the effect of no deadzone on cloth-wearers, although LoS has replaced range and kiting and deadzoning in arenas anyway. I always felt from about day 1 the arenas weren't big enough.

The changes to pvp trinkets (hunters can now escape polymorph; mages can now escape freezing trap) ruined the fun of this particular matchup anyway imo :P

 

Osse

3 years with deadzone.

Yet there will be a lot of people confused when 2.3 hits live and they still see hunters meleeing sometimes. They then say, wtf, wasnt deadzone removed?? :|

 

Enova

Well, i'm pretty skeptical about the removal of the deadzone. While it does prevent everyone else from exploiting hunter mechanics, it will also lead to loads of bad habits, like standing still until the very last moment, instead of taking a few extra moments to move further away.

It will undoubtedly reduce the frequence of kiting in PVP, but i can't shake the feeling it will have adverse effects on PVE as well. There's currently not a lot of content that requires hunter kiting (from what i gather, Vashj's striders and the trash in MH), but any new hunter will probably have no clue on how to do it. After all, there's no better way to learn something than PVP.

Other than that, there's only one thing i can say: "Hell, it's about time!"

 

dysphoria

I don't mean to be a killjoy, however the problems we have in smaller brackets barely stem from deadzone problems. People are lumping LoS and melee range under 'deadzone' and expecting it to be some type of miracle cure.

If you take a hard look at what makes the 4 non-hybrid DPS classes viable, and compare them to hunters post-patch, there is still a fundamental lack of synergy. Either a key debuff ala ms/cot is required, or spammable CC.

These changes are good for the class overall, but like the rogue changes I feel they do little to address the brackets we have the most problems in. I'm positive after a few weeks people will become accustomed to the hunter teams pushing up the ranks (of which most well ranked teams are currently not used to), and things will only marginally improve.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful we got attention, however I still feel our class needs direction, and would have liked to have seen that first.

 

Mirajj

This stuns me as well. The sheer amount of folks thinking that hunters will now be able to point blank shoot is shocking. Goes to show how few actually know much about the hunter, but are sure happy enough to call for a nerf.

As I mainly PvE, this is a nice "annoyance" removal. There was some really irksome (but not unworkable) spots where the deadzone was a hassle. This'll make playing less frustrating at times.

~Not all who wander are lost~

 

Howitzer

Well, the real benefit in my eyes is that it lessens the gap that I'd be able to kite a melee away from me with a conc shot at 5/6 yds instead of 8 minimum. It will allow for close-quarter combat to be much more managable and the best thing is the goddam frost mages that nova / ice lance you and laugh will be history. The addition of this rumored "disarming shot" will add an interesting twist, also, being able to nullify a melee for 10 seconds will make us much more of a target as well as the purge of arcane. People are going to actually run after hunters 1st rather than forget about them.

 

Cwealm

"Mages may suffer from this."

Yeah. Understatement of the decade. The idea of standing at max range and outdpsing a hunter is absurd. You getting rid of your pet? They removing spell pushback? They extending the range on our instants? And since all pvp mages are frost, are they extending frost nova to 40 yards so we can take advantage of our fb/il crits?

This bones mages bad.

 

Howitzer

The change is a good one. Of course it doesn't cover the underlying issues of the class but its a start. We still haven't seen ALL of the 2.3 changes and I have a feeling the patch is going to be on the PTR for a long time before its released. Who knows what will happen in that time.

 

Kinv

I heard the game isn't balanced for 1v1...... and you do realize you can still just sit in melee range and burn down the hunter...... the only difference now is you might Actually have to take some dmg, and can't your Water elemental run up and frost nova while y our 40 yards away?