hey have you guys ever thought that its personal preference between rune tap and blood worms?..also the main thing ive been hearing also with people preferring diseasless rotations was because its easy to maintain..thats really sad if some of you guys cannot keep up with the diseased blood rotation which is pretty easy in itself..yeah it takes a bit more concentration but having to use a diseasles rotation because its easier is totally stupid..maybe you should roll unholy or something...as for ulduar and the future of diseased rotation im pretty sure with all the hype and the diseaseless rotation bandwaggon blizzard is lookinginto how to buff diseases which GC had already mentioned.

Greetings everyone at EJ,

I originally poured through this thread looking for "magic numbers". That is, in TBC there was a "magic number" for Avoidance on Tankadins, 102.4%. This of course made the Tankadin uncrushable. As well all know, crushing blows have been removed.

In addition to this, diminishing returns have been added. In accordance with the information on this forum and common sense, it simply doesn't make sense to continually stack one stat as we used to. In TBC I had a very nice 112% avoidance, which besides being beyond the crush cap, increased my survivability greatly.

What I was trying to find on this thread then, is a new set of magic numbers. At what point does the Tankadin need to tell himself "no more dodge", etc.? Looking at the charts provided I have been unable to find those numbers. At this point in time I am running 26214 HP, 22665 Armor, 542 Defense, 25.14% Dodge, 17.21% Parry, 20.93% Block, completely unbuffed... <url>http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Khaz+Modan&n=Azidonys</url>

What I was wondering is, at what point to stop stacking Dodge? Eventually, the diminishing returns are going to be such that it simply isn't worth getting another Dodge gem or whatever, and I will just end up stacking Defense at that point. So is there a "magic number" for this? It is possible that I missed such a thing in another post on this thread. IF I have, will someone please be kind enough to link it to me?

With that said, is there a magic number for Avoidance as well, a percentage of Avoidance where it is just simply useless to try and surpass? Unlike some other Tanks, I value Avoidance over HP any day of the week. But with diminishing returns, there is bound to be a point where adding more Avoidance is no longer going to be useful, and a Tank will get more Effective Health from HP than the negligible amounts he would get from the diminishing returns. Again, I'm not sure if there is such a number yet, or if I have missed it.

Regarding Tankadin Talents, I use the following: <url>http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0eVA0uMteIRGoEf</url> This can also be seen from the Armory link. To feel like I have added something to this thread....

Divine Strength - quite an obvious choice. More Str = more aggro.
Anticipation - 5% Dodge...
Stoicism - Tanks cannot Dodge, Block, or Parry while Stunned, so why not use anything available ot minimize Stun effects?
Improved Righteous Fury and Toughness - If you don't have them, just re-roll.
Improved Devotion Aura - Best move at this point on the tree, in my opinion. Not only is the extra armor useful in the sense that every little bit helps, but you get a tad bit more heals. Plus, the Retadins have the Retribution Aura, let the Healadins get Concentration, and we can have our Devo. It definately beats having to use Ret Aura because Devo was Trash (ie. TBC).
Blessing of Sanctuary - If you don't have it, re-roll.
One-handed Weapon Specialization - 10% more damage... It's probably just white damage, but it's threat, and every little bit helps.
Sacred Duty - If you don't have it, re-roll.
Anything further down the Prot Tree is a simply necessity, in my opinion.

From the Retribution Tree

Deflection - 5% Parry... easy stats, must have.
Benediction - Not necessarily an essential Talent, but is helpful nonetheless. There are indeed time where a Tankadin needs to "burst", and Benediction helps with this. It's just useful all around. 10% mana reduction to all instant cast spells, which is all of our threat building skills.
Improved Judgments - Another must have. If it's not apparent to some, it will become apparent below.
Heart of the Crusader - Why not? I don't mind a 14.92% chance to crit, and I'm certain the DPS doesn't mind the extra 3% either. It's a more of less "hidden" Raid Buff.

Okay, last piece of opinion for now... this "96969" rotation. I honestly never bothered reading exactly what it is. A Guildie tried to discuss it with me one day. Here's how I see it...

1st - Get the 10s Consecration. The main reason for this is that really, you have a 4 target threat system. If you have more than 4 targets, you are going to have an off tank anyway, (unless he's dead). In this 4 targets or threat, your Consecration threat is near negligible to to the rest of the threat you are going to put out. So get the 10s one, toss it on the ground, refresh it every now and then, and forget about it. With the 8s Consecration, you have more stops in between just to lay it down, and since it doesn't create as much threat as your other skills, it isn't as necessary as it was in TBC.

What do I mean by a 4 target threat system? Picture: You have 4 mobs. Avenger's Shield grabs 3. The fourth run runs at you... Judgment as soon as it is within 20 yards), the Shield of Righteousness. Then, lay down your Consecration. By that time, the other mobs will be close enough for you to Hammer of Righteousness on those 3. Now you have solid threat on 4 mobs right at the start. If you have the mobs marks, by all means, stay on the 1st Mark. If not, it works like this... from left to right: Mobs A - D. Avenger's Shield mob D, and B-D will be affected. This leaves A for your Judgment + SHoR. When B - D come up, HoR on D. This locks all 4 targets onto you. When your SHoR comes back, switch it to D. Then HoR on A to affect A - C. Wa - la, a 4 target threat system. Consecration is only so useful in that it is a constant TPS builder, which means it is creating TPS during your targetting changes and your GCDs, as well as your Raider's GCDs. Again, for anything more than 4 targets you should generally have an off tank.

Single Target Threat: Best example: Boss fights. Pull using Avenger's Shield. If you have to run to it, Judgment first then SHoR. If not, lay a Consecration as it gets close enough to you, then Judge and SHoR. Step 2: HoR followed by HS. Now you are locked in. If you haven't tossed Consecration yet, go ahead and do so, and let it tick. When your Judgment comes back up, Judge and the SHoR right after. This will get the maximum effect from your Libram of Obstruction as well. With that going, it's a done deal.

In perhaps clearer words: Pair your Judgment and SHoR together, and work their cool downs in unison. This is your main single target threat builder. Work HS and HoR in unison. HS is obviously more important, but a well placed HoR is always a wonderful thing. Consecration... keep it down, but it's not a priority on single target fights. It is indeed possible to Tank any boss and not use Consecration one time in Wrath. It is a Threat "sustainer", not a threat builder.

That's about it, until I think of more stuff to write down. At this point I just really wanted to get some of this out, as I have been pulling aggro from Death Knights, Warriors, Druids, and Paladins on their main targets with ease using these strategies. A great example of this is during Vault of Archavon fights, where some of the best geared Tanks on the server have tanked with me. I'll watch them hold aggro, while the 3.2k DPSers are 90-95% of their threat. Then when I taunt, I manage to move the threat of those same DPSers down in the low 80s. Of course, once the other Tank taunts off of me, the numbers go back to the way they were before after a while of him not being able to sustain the amount of TPS I put out. This is so with all dual tanking endeavours.

My first lesson in Patchwerk was that if I am going to be taking the hateful strikes, I need to create as little aggro as possible so I do not pull him from the main tank, which I have done many times in the past. Since they changed Patchwerk to threat based, I suppose I'm stuck being the main tank for him now.

Anyway, for those of you with Talent questions, its pretty simple, as laid out above. Let the Healadins and Retadins get Kings for the Raid. Don't bother with Improved Hammer of Justice, it's a PvP Talent. And please don't put points into Reckoning.

For those of you who (and I've met some) simply have no idea how some Tankadins create so much ungodly amounts of threat, it's in plain English above. Toss on your Seal of Vengeance and enjoy.

For those of you who may know those magic numbers. I'm all eyes and ears.

Thanks for letting me post here. It's a pleasure to be a part of the EJ comminuty.

Happy Raiding!

Azi

(P.S. Next time I won't be so long winded. Sorry about that.)

Sorry if this has been mentioned somewhere before, but I can't see it anywhere. I was wondering how good the 2 drake 10 man OS DPS ring is, the Greatring of Collision? (Don't know how to link it sorry). If you were a JC, and did a 27 agi gem in it, may that make it one of the best. E.g, Surge Needle Ring and it would be the best combo?
Once again, sorry if this has been mentioned somewhere else, or if you think this is a silly question.

First, you throw sarcasm around about personal preference of different talents chosen, but you can somehow justify to call people stupid for choosing a different style of playing their spec? There's no rule saying you must apply diseases or not in Blizz's rulebook that I've heard. If it works well, (and currently it works VERY well) then it would be "stupid" for one to not work smart. Hey, have you ever heard of the term bigot?....... ya didn't think so...... grats on the new title.

I got a question about daggers for my PVE build.

Ok so I got Anarchy, webbed death and Librams paper cutter. I know Webbed death is the best PVE dagger atm but I am a little torn on what to do with the other two.

Which combo would be the best

MH Librams paper cutter, off hand Webbed death

MH anarchy Off hand Webbed death

or MH webbed death Off hand anarchy

I have tried very hard to find the answer to this by reading through post but I cannot. And everyone in my guild is just confusing me cause they are saying complete differnt stuff. Thanks in advance!

How do I improve my threat on my tank-DK?

She is frost with all T7 gear.

Can I build threat with enchants and gems? and in that case, which?

Happy 4 answers.

Qupe, that's one of my favorites from the thread, great job. One question, does your raid frames show debuffs that can be cleansed/decursed?

My Current Holy Crit is 37.53 and sp is 2333 unbuffed. When we talk about crit, it is regular crit or holy crit I am looking at? I was told 40-60% crit by a seasoned raider in a top guild on our server. I am assuming that is Holy Crit? That seems like a difficult number to acquire without changing all my gems to crit. When is it overkill? If my current crit or sp is overkill then I would change gems for more intel. I have 20,200 mana atm unbuffed. I just do not know how to gage my stats as I only started heavy 25 man end game raiding 10 months before Wrath came, out so I lack some experience and basic knowledge. I also lack resources for information, it is not like I know paladins on SC server that I can talk shop with. I am bringing my questions to this public forum and I ask for your assistance. I very much want to be the best at what I do, I currently raid 4-5 nights a week. I have currently finished all content Bosses and we are working on OS2D drakes atm. I do not want to waste anyones time with frivolous questions but I really do not know the answers and I find myself stressing over my stats daily. If I knew where a safe area was and if I had obtained it I could then focus on another areas, such as Intel, or Haste. Thank you.

This is a wonderful UI. Very well laid out, slim, and neat. I am curious though what addon you are using for the symbol in between your two windows near the center of the screen.

Hey there,
here's my new UI. Hope you like it, and, as always C&C welcome.

i would just like to know what it currently the best raiding spec and shot rotations as of 3.0.9,
i do not PVP so i don't need any talents that would help with it.
just asking because my DPS really sucks ( about 1200-1500) my gear isn't the best right now but not that bad i think, i have a few pieces from Naxx10, a few crafted and some badge pieces, if you check out narlind on bronzebeard server that is me, and i just respeced as of Feb 12, 2009, but haven't tried it out yet other than on the dummy in IF.

P.S. i suck at keeping my pet alive and the healers in my guild don't find it important to do so either.

hello what stats is most important as dk tank?
what stats should i focus most on???

For DW dps, what glyphs are best for shoulders and head?

sry, i mean what enchants are best for head and shoulders? **

Sure, all you need is for every decurser to totally forget that it's a decurse fight. That happen to, um, to a friend's guild recently. Yessir. Stupid friend and his stupid guild.

Nice and clean. And I love your unitframe, I've been using them :P But could you tell me what font are you using in the chat? :-)

hi

i can't seem to find any trinket dps comparisons for diff specs

currently i have illustration and sundial - is anyone able to determine whether its gain/loss to equip embrance of the spider instead of sundial for arc spec? my math fails me atm

thanks

Bought it
Tested it.
Laughing hard each time it procs

That was great. Thanks for the tip.
Might aswell look for the Embrace of the spider just in case they fix, which with my luck, should be soon.

Well, loatheb 40 meant cascading heals. As when you cast one healspell you got a X second cooldown on all your healingspells. So you cascaded the raidhealers healing so you had heals landing constantly.

That and it was hell to farm the amount of sr pots needed, but thats a totally different story :p

tested it with embrace of the spider, hey it does stack

Yep - first time we tried Noth, we had no idea what we were doing and AOEd down the adds while Noth was on the floor. Of course the Mages ran out of mana very quickly and we were overwhelmed in P2.

Loatheb, OTOH, I don't believe it's possible to wipe on so long your healers know what the aura does. I've heard of it happening, though.

Normally I don't say anything about posts like these, but this time I'm going to. The unfortunate demise of HDimage is not in any way our fault, nor was it a "crappy" image host. You expect us to use proper language and punctuation, but you feel that swearing about everything and being rude is okay too. I'm pretty sure I'm probably going to see a ban for this post, but to the best of my ability I wrote it to sound as least rude as possible.

The people who post in these threads are real people. Just because it's the internet doesn't mean that treating people like cockroaches is okay. I can understand deleting posts of people who don't follow the rules. I've seen many of stupid infractions given out just because you just feel like it that day. Everyone here seems to just think that's okay. I'm not a sheep, and I don't think it's okay.