Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1021

obeah · 03/28/10, 4:30 PM

If the second tank taunts its cool because I will be free to receive the second tick from soul reaper while the other tank is getting attacked with the haste debuff.

So, I agree that DR will not affect Soul Reaper ticks but without a tank rotation it will help me on haste attacks.

PS: Sounds good to do a taunt rotation on phase 3 but during phase 2 where OT still dealing with Raging Spirits (at the beginning) or stunning Valks that can be a problem (or at last a bit harder to execute).

Khazilein · 03/28/10, 4:52 PM

Okay, so far I can follow some of your points, but some are just not accurate.

DnD Glyph is for Multitarget Aggro. It's not designed for most boss fights. So this is (like I said, I beg you to read my whole post please next time) a must-have glyph if you attempt to hold multiple enemies. If you have 2 T10 and some support by rogues/hunters then you could drop it for RS glyph, yes, although I'm curious if 2T10 + glyph bring out some major threat even on single targets?

HoW Glyph: You are never responsible for keeping up a str/agi buff in any serious raid situation. If you really are, okay, I give you that, but your raid should really look into getting some good shamans. And even in 10 man raids (I have tanked 11/12 Hm on 10m) you have more than enough time in most fights where you can rebuff it, you need the runic power. Damaging yourself for Blood Tab is just not acceptable.

DRM: I would dare to say, that with 4/5 T10 bonus I could see a sense in talenting it, as you use your Blood Tap for it. If you are main tank and the boss does not request many taunting skills, you could easily drop the Improved DG for it, yes. If not, you can not seriously suggest there is any situation where you should spam HS instead of DS. If you don't have healing/survivability problems, you just don't need more threat/dps. You need the healing, everytime. It's your job to stay alive. Of course, in fights like Saurfang or Festergut there should be use to it.

The "3/3 Virulence, 2/2 Vicious Strikes" was a mistake in my talent link above (corrected now), but you have looked up my armory, so you should have seen my real spec. 1/3 Ravenous Dead > is better than 1 point in Might of Mograine as strenght also buffs your avoidance by a minor amount.

I don't see any further flaws I need to address, could you explain the horrible wasted points and low dps?

I have to look where in ICC the Blood Worms count as soakers for debuffs and hits, they do these kind of things in some 5m heroics though. I believe I have seen adds at Lady Deathwhisper casting curses on them.

Melchior · 03/28/10, 5:11 PM

I don't really see how Imp. Death Grip has any real value in a raid setting. Even on Heroic Deathwhisper the base cooldown is enough to cast Death Grip for every set of adds. Not strong enough on Valithria to see how it's a good use of 2 points.

Khazilein · 03/28/10, 5:41 PM

Yes and no, This isn't a useful talent in many bossfights, although at some fights it's "nice to have". Lich King for example. (Spirits in transition-phase or ghosts in p3)

riggins · 03/28/10, 5:43 PM

Originally Posted by Khazilein

Okay, so far I can follow some of your points, but some are just not accurate.

DnD Glyph is for Multitarget Aggro. It's not designed for most boss fights. So this is (like I said, I beg you to read my whole post please next time) a must-have glyph if you attempt to hold multiple enemies. If you have 2 T10 and some support by rogues/hunters then you could drop it for RS glyph, yes, although I'm curious if 2T10 + glyph bring out some major threat even on single targets?

HoW Glyph: You are never responsible for keeping up a str/agi buff in any serious raid situation. If you really are, okay, I give you that, but your raid should really look into getting some good shamans. And even in 10 man raids (I have tanked 11/12 Hm on 10m) you have more than enough time in most fights where you can rebuff it, you need the runic power. Damaging yourself for Blood Tab is just not acceptable.

DRM: I would dare to say, that with 4/5 T10 bonus I could see a sense in talenting it, as you use your Blood Tap for it.....

The "3/3 Virulence, 2/2 Vicious Strikes" was a mistake in my talent link above (corrected now), but you have looked up my armory, so you should have seen my real spec. 1/3 Ravenous Dead > is better than 1 point in Might of Mograine as strenght also buffs your avoidance by a minor amount.

I don't see any further flaws I need to address, could you explain the horrible wasted points and low dps?

I have to look where in ICC the Blood Worms count as soakers for debuffs and hits, they do these kind of things in some 5m heroics though. I believe I have seen adds at Lady Deathwhisper casting curses on them.

I did read your whole post. I beg you to read the whole thread.

I do find myself in quite a few 'serious' raiding situations. I am referring mainly to 10man hardmodes when referencing HoW glyph being mandatory. You wont always have an enh shaman (or an ele/resto that has to drop stoneskin or EB) or dps DK in your groups, thats fact not opinion. As far as your blood tap comment, sure, if you arent going to be responsible for keeping it up, use Blood Tap Glyph by all means.

However, this isnt a 5man thread, which you referenced at the end of your post. This is an endgame tanking thread. Endgame tanking = Single target, not multi target. That applies w/ very few exceptions (see: Suno's Fireside Chat - DK Endgame Tanking). You dont need to be focusing on trash tanking or multi mob tanking, you need to be focusing on how to be the best single target tank for each encounter.

Picking up 3/3 Morbidity and Glyphing DnD are inferior on a single target fight when compared to other talents.

Originally Posted by Khazilein

Yes and no, This isn't a useful talent in many bossfights, although at some fights it's "nice to have". Lich King for example. (Spirits in transition-phase or ghosts in p3)

If you are having problems taunting, I dont see how specc'ing into Imp DG helps that (its still on a 25sec cooldown, lol), just glyph Dark Command. If you are having troubles picking up Raging's in LK transitions, spam IT harder or if you are silienced run up and start building threat w/ physical hits. DG doesn't even pull them to you, which means you may as well use taunt.

Originally Posted by Khazilein

If you are main tank and the boss does not request many taunting skills, you could easily drop the Improved DG for it, yes. If not, you can not seriously suggest there is any situation where you should spam HS instead of DS. If you don't have healing/survivability problems, you just don't need more threat/dps. You need the healing, everytime. It's your job to stay alive.

Read the fucking thread. Please. Its on the same page as your post for God's sake, just scroll up. There are TONS of situations where you should spam HS instead of DS, and tons that you need to have the death runes available for other options. (ie Vamp Blood, Rune Tap, Army of the Dead, Strangulate, Mark of Blood)

As an overview your raid experience is definitely noticeable due to the statements and logic you are trying to provide in this thread. A bit of advice: Open up your mind a bit and do some research. There is a lot you can learn that I can tell you haven't already.

Thanks and I hope that helps.

tgouned · 03/28/10, 6:31 PM

Okay... so this means 4 t10 REALLY does much less damage for Arms than 2 T9 / 2 T10?... sux.

Btw... I can't describe where the error lies, but when I import my character from the Armory, the values for hitcap within the sheet and the true value differ. While I have 258 hit rating, the sheet keeps telling me I'd be missing more than 10.

GamleErik · 03/28/10, 6:41 PM

Just wondering, is rupture out?
Just got back from a 4 month break, so just wondering.

Schwolop · 03/28/10, 6:53 PM

How is it that people who clearly know how Rawr and EnhSim work *still* manage to completely misunderstand EP values and their total and utter uselessness when it comes to gemming choices?

EP values do not tell you how to gem. All they have ever said is "in a magical fantasy world where you were able to add additional stats to your gear, without disrupting any of the stats that are already present, the stats with the highest EP value would be the best to choose" - BUT THIS MAGICAL FANTASY WORLD DOESN'T EXIST!

Farosarg's quote about fluctuating haste values not showing up in the Rawr graph only demonstrates a lack of understanding of this fact. In the test he performed, he almost certainly removed some of one stat to add more haste, and saw the fluctuating dps and EP results. The Rawr graph doesn't show this, because it's operating in the magical fantasy land where it can just add haste without needing to remove anything else. In magical fantasy land, adding haste is always good. In reality, when you need to sacrifice something else to do so, it's not always good.

Use the simulators to find the combination of stats that maximises your dps. Ignore EP values.

Obligation · 03/28/10, 7:52 PM

Just swap your 5 points in Ferocity to FA, The only point I see in having Ferocity is if your cat dpsing often while tank specced.

jogi173 · 03/28/10, 8:13 PM

Originally Posted by cerin616

these numbers make me feel a little sketchy on the rotation changes. My armor pen is about 1379 with raid food buff, and I am starting to think the rupture change is going to leave me unaffected.

I re-gemmed my gear..went with all AP+AP/Hit, resultet in a huge damage increase on static bosses. Got only 425 Arp remaining. Gearscore was like 5800ish and had an increase of about 9% on saurfang(with mangle up!). Went with 3/3 Ruthlessness, 2/2 BS, glyphs: SS, KS, Rupt. Snd Glyph didn work for me because of Snd duration alway lasting to long to refresh and to short to do another finisher Oo. Rotation was sth. like 3+s3+e5r
For me that means it pushes me ahead of mutilate again. Anyone else with same experience?

Frobes · 03/28/10, 8:29 PM

I looked through all of the pages, and either there isn't a post about it or I missed it, but...

I see Blizz SCT making <Art of War> and <Divine Storm> float by, but is there any way to get power auras classic (PAC) or another mod to inform you (in the PAC manner) that the 2/5 T10 proc from you gear has reset your DS timer?

Ragnar9000 · 03/28/10, 9:46 PM

Most importantly, with current levels of haste, a 0.15 second cut on fireball, combined with T10ish haste, will likely cause the 2T10 to affect an extra fireball under the regular "hot streaked pyro followed by 3 fireballs" situation. This is a very significant threshold value.

In short, you're trying to oversimplify a problem by estimating "DPS values" from haste and crit. In reality, spec performances just aren't continuous curves that gain X DPS from Y haste/crit.

So, with the T10 haste bonus, are we Fire Mages using Spell/Haste gems in our yellow sockets? It's a very good point that the new glyph gives us haste just where we need it with the Global Cooldown Cap on LB and Pyro. Also, Red sockets are still getting Spell gems? The context for the gem questions is middle content for ICC on 10 and 25. Thanks.

Shigo · 03/28/10, 9:51 PM

How viable is unholy subspec DW now?

Binya · 03/28/10, 9:56 PM

Hello everyone,

I manged to gear up my Unholy alt a bit but I am not sure how to deal with the 4Piece Damage-T9 bonus. I think it's really nice but Consider mentioned the bonus is ridiculousness. Some of the DKs i asked also said it is nice and should be kept as long as possible. So I'm questioning myself if i'm missing something. Should I go for 2T10 as fast as possible or did I messed up with the translation of the Unholy Thread? :S

Rannskita · 03/28/10, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by decodelbanjo

Hi I have never been able to get rawr or spreadsheets to work ever, but i was wondering how the priority of different spells changes depending on number of mobs you expect to hit (using Seal of Command). I never really worried about it before but rotation is a bit more important now with LK 25 valk phase. Is there a different priority if ur attacking 2 3 or 4+ mobs.
Thanks

I believe that last time I checked my own rawr, the 'rotation' section said the best possible aoe priority on 2-4 mobs began ds>j>cons>cs and 4+ mobs was cons>ds>J>cs.