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Old 04/14/10, 3:41 AM   #15931
Mindpaste
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Pretty new to Death Knight and recently got to 80.

Now I got a quick question regarding tank specs. As of, I would have to do plenty of heroics and obviously aiming for tanking, I was wondering which tank spec you would recommend for 5-man dungeons/heroics as well as 10-man raids.

Blood vs. Frost or just a matter of taste/synergy? We're 5 mates where we got a Arcane/Fire Mage, Survival Hunter, Assassination Rogue and Disc/Holy Priest.

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Old 04/14/10, 3:49 AM   #15932
lukaszzurek
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Wildhammer (EU)
Please check my profile in signature. According to Rawr - http://elitistjerks.com/rawr.php
Bryndoll 227 is the best weapon for me. Except ofc. LK25hc and legendary weapons.
Do You agree this this simulation? Currently i`m suing SE as dps weapon and Bryndoll 277 as offspec tank weapon.

Rawr also suggest to put in yellow slot +20 str gem when socet bonus is +4 str. Do You agree with that? Currently I`m using in those situations +crit/str gems.

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Old 04/14/10, 5:15 AM   #15933
Nyth_
Piston Honda
 
Troll Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
Originally Posted by Mindpaste View Post
Pretty new to Death Knight and recently got to 80.

Now I got a quick question regarding tank specs. As of, I would have to do plenty of heroics and obviously aiming for tanking, I was wondering which tank spec you would recommend for 5-man dungeons/heroics as well as 10-man raids.

Blood vs. Frost or just a matter of taste/synergy? We're 5 mates where we got a Arcane/Fire Mage, Survival Hunter, Assassination Rogue and Disc/Holy Priest.
Definitely Frost.

Blood is probably slightly better for raids, but frost really outshines blood when it comes to 5 mans, and holds its own in 10 mans. Blood just lacks the AoE aggro to make it as good as frost.
If you're really going to focus on 5 man content, then I'd strongly suggest you pick up Glyph of Howling Blast and try to find some points in your spec for at least 2 points in Morbidity.
That way you can on each pull start the rotation with: Howling Blast > Death and Decay > Blood Boil.
And you're set.

If you are heavily focusing a lot on 10 mans, you can skip those. Although i still prefer to use Glyph of Howling Blast.

Last edited by Chicken : 04/14/10 at 5:18 PM.

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Old 04/14/10, 5:50 AM   #15934
Mindpaste
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Thanks a lot, appreciated.

That was my thought, certainly will try it out.

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Old 04/14/10, 6:49 AM   #15935
Vigil Mortis
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Priest
 
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
Sorry about the arcanemages giving the crit-debuff, just looked that one up in raidcomp and it would be just with specific arcane-specs, which i guess almost no one has. But they still have more support than us.

So either they give us:
  • Other support
  • More manareg for group (like BC, but i don't think they will)
  • More groupheal (like 25% on groupmembers too, but i don't think they will)
  • More dmg (which would make us the best dd-class, so i don't think they will)
  • A chance to reroll my Shadow to a Warlock

Or they just nerf the support of the other 9 classes, so replenishment and groupheal is enough.

Last edited by Vigil Mortis : 04/14/10 at 7:00 AM.

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Old 04/14/10, 9:20 AM   #15936
Littlegirlie
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Alleria (EU)
I have a question concerning the Glyph of Holy Light. The tooltip says "Your Holy Light grants 10% of its heal amount...".

Parsing our Logs on Dreamwalker there are incredible high numbers healed by the Glyph, which I cannot explain. Example from the last WoL, at this point i had 26 stacks, wings, trinket, 2pt10 and wild magic:

[22:04:00.234] Littlegirlie Heiliges Licht Treant +*0* (O: 163921)
[22:04:00.812] Littlegirlie Glyphe 'Heiliges Licht' Aylane +0 (O: 118212)

Normally 10% of 164k schould be something around 16k? Which point do I miss?

Sry for my englisch, im not a native speaker.

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Old 04/14/10, 9:40 AM   #15937
• malthrin
stalemate associate
 
malthrin's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Glyph of Holy Light "double dips" from percentage-based healing modifiers. That is to say, if your HL healed for 10000 and you had +100% healing (for a total of 200%), this happens:

Base Holy Light: 10000
Holy Light after modifier: 10000 * 2.00 = 20000
Base Glyph: 20000 * .1 = 2000
Glyph after modifier: 2000 * 2.00 = 4000

On Dreamwalker, you have a lot of percentage healing modifiers in play: orb stacks, wings/GS/DI, and the ICC healing buff. You can get some very high Glyph numbers. It's good practice to make sure your Glyph heals are hitting Dreamwalker.


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Old 04/14/10, 9:48 AM   #15938
Continuity
Glass Joe
 
Continuity's Avatar
 
Human Paladin
 
Eredar (EU)
edit: malthrim was faster and answered one of my questions, so instead of reposting, i'm editing here...


I think the glyph heal double dips on your active specials and the buff.

lets asume we get 16392 heal from the glyph by default.

adding (possibly skilled 5%): 17212
adding SoL Glyph: 18072
adding 5% aura (druid/prot pala): 18976
adding 20% avenging wrath: 22771
adding 35% 2-Setbonus-T10: 30741
adding the 26 stacks (260%): 79926
adding 10% ICC buff: 87919

maybe I am missing some buffs here and I am not sure if the heal-boni add up the way I calculated but this is still much behind the 120k...


has anyone a sufficient explanation? since I am getting these heals, too and wondering as well about these numbers...



88k is still far away...

Last edited by Continuity : 04/14/10 at 9:55 AM.

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Old 04/14/10, 9:56 AM   #15939
Sqeez
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Kazzak (EU)
16400 (for sake of simplicity)
26 stacks (*2.6)
DI active with 2 set bonus (*1.35)
AW active (*1.2)
ICC buff (*1.1)
Divinity (*1.05)
Imp.Devo aura (*1.06)
JoL Glyph (*1.05)

Comes out at like 88.7k heal.


Ends up at like 525% or so. Still doesnt account for a 118212 Glyph heal.

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Old 04/14/10, 11:18 AM   #15940
Bryler
Banned
 
Human Paladin
 
Talnivarr (EU)
From a Holy Paladin point of view, these changes seem like they got less attention from Blizzard than other classes.
Guardian of Ancient Kings could be interesting if it works for holy like a healing version of a dk's gargoyle, especially if they are smart heals. And I would agree that it's more of a cooldown than a pet. But I doubt it will end up having a 30second duration when it goes live and it will turn out to be more of a "Divine Hymn" for Paladins.

I can see why Blizzard waited this long to announce the paladin changes, it's as if they didnt do any work on them at all and just threw something together this morning


Cleanse is being rebalanced to work with the new dispel system. It will dispel defensive magic (debuffs on friendly targets), diseases, and poisons.
...


Flash of Light remains the expensive, fast heal
It will be hard for FoL to REMAIN the expensive fast heal when it's currently the most mana effective healing spell in the game


Beacon of Light will be changed to work with Flash of Light
If this odd wording means that FoL will be the only spell that is transfered to the beacon target than paladins will basiclaly remain in the same position they are now. Except instead of spamming HL we will be spamming FoL, and instead of stacking Int we will be stacking SP. It will be TBC all over again...
Basically we will probablly be healing like the Premontion holy paladins do know

Holy

* Healing
* Meditation
* Critical Healing Effect
Critical Healing Effect...

Really?

By far the most useless mastery bonus i've seen any class/spec receive..

This mastery bonus also supports my theory of FoL spamming. If FoL continues to gain crit from sacred shield then critical healing effect wouldn't be as useless as it is now. In fact this is the only explanation I can think of for giving us a mastery bonus that currently seems so useless.

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Old 04/14/10, 11:43 AM   #15941
Cardano
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Nordrassil
Originally Posted by Sqeez View Post
16400 (for sake of simplicity)
26 stacks (*2.6)
DI active with 2 set bonus (*1.35)
AW active (*1.2)
ICC buff (*1.1)
Divinity (*1.05)
Imp.Devo aura (*1.06)
JoL Glyph (*1.05)
Comes out at like 88.7k heal.
Ends up at like 525% or so. Still doesnt account for a 118212 Glyph heal.
Shouldnt 26 stacks yield a +260% or [ Heal * 3.6 ] amount?
16400 * 3.6 * 1.35 * 1.2 * 1.1 * 1.05 = 110k

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Old 04/14/10, 12:21 PM   #15942
Muse
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Kil'Jaeden
Critical Healing Effect: When the paladin gets a crit on a heal, it will heal for more.

/moan

The last thing a healer would want is jumbo crits. A much better alternative would be changing this to Sheath of Light's HoT when a heal crits.

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Old 04/14/10, 12:55 PM   #15943
klockblock
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Frostmane
Hey, I have latest version of rawr and it's not showing any leather items anymore. I was wondering if any of you could let me know how to fix this. thanks

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Old 04/14/10, 12:56 PM   #15944
Navystylz
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Altar of Storms
Originally Posted by Burberri View Post
Perhaps I am over analyzing this but I am looking at the precise way this is worded.

It says you can no longer clip the FINAL tick. Which is to say you can clip the 2nd to last tick or the tick before that. It also says that it will work SIMILAR to how everlasting affliction currently works. Meaning that it won't act exactly like Everlasting Affliction.
In the first case though it's an intentional choice of the caster to do that. Even still I believe the mechanics of this will work as wait till a tick pops and THEN reset the duration back to full. I believe the same mechanic is present in the current Corruption.

There are also 2 parts to consider when talking about a mechanic working similar. In the case of Everlasting affliction it would be a) the spells that trigger the effect and b) the effect. In this case by blizzard saying instead of:

Your Corruption and Unstable Affliction spells gain an additional 5% of your bonus spell damage, and your Drain Life, Drain Soul, Shadow Bolt, and Haunt spells have a 100% chance to reset the duration of your Corruption spell on the target.

Your Fel Flame has 100% chance to reset the duration of your Immolate and Unstable Affliction on the target.

The similarity is the resetting of the duration, the difference is it's a different spell that triggers it and it resets different spells than what EA does.

The way it is being described where you refresh the duration and it keeps ticking makes sense, but I question how that is any more intuitive or enhances the dot mechanic function now available. It is likely, particularly when you have Bane of Agony and UA ending at the same time in conjunction with haunt needing a refresh that you are going to lose one of the 3 dots.
Yes, it may not be extra intuitive. I believe the whole point of this change is to make your DPS rotation easier to manage. With the inability to clip ticks because the mechanic will reset the duration after the next tick, then if you know a spell would drop off you simple reapply via recasting or rolling with talent mechanic or Fel Flame. The basis of this is the dps won't change and the only limiting factor is the mana cost of the spell.

In light of that, and based on the language above it seems to me that what will happen is that casting a dot will increase the duration by the dot length up to a maximum amount. Such as for immolate which is a 15 second dot, casting it at 2 seconds remaining will increase the duration to 17 seconds, but casting it at 5 second remaining will increase the duration to 18 seconds. This will prevent clipping the last tick, as well as act similar but not exactly to everlasting affliction while preventing running up 2 minutes of the dot on the boss to start the fight.
I'm not sure where this hypothesize is coming from. And anyone who seriously thought about it wold immediately realize that would never be the case, especially after the comparison to EA.

The other thing I found interesting is that Fel Flame is specifically mentioned as a way for demon and destro to refresh immolate, but UA is also mentioned without affliction. However, fel flame is instant cast and UA is not. Given that Fel flame does damage + refreshes UA versus just refreshing UA, it seems very much an affliction tool above 25% mob health.
I was wondering the same thing myself. I knew that immolate was a bread and butter of destro and UA for affliction, only thinking about it I realized that demo must use it in rotations too so that the one spell is useful to all specs. From this is just gather that demo and destro will also get increase to it's dmg or something and the only reason affliction would use it if they have to move a lot or in pvp.

The other oddity with fel flame is that by necessity its cool down will be less than 15 seconds. Granted Shadowburn is getting a buff to the execute phase, perhaps enough to make it worth working into the rotation for destro which is rather bland from start to finish. But in this sense it seems like it is essentially the same spell, and so I wonder if we are going to see them share cooldowns ala dragon breath and cone of cold.
Well we still don't know the dmg on Fel Flame. At this moment I'm kind of thinking of it like Ice Lance for the mage. The dmg alone is negligible, it's spammable and it's not until you add the frozen mechnic into it that the spell becomes dangerous.

If Fel Flame works on the same premise. Then it would also have negligible dmg, be spammable, but the special affect instead would be that it resets immolate and UA. If this is the case then it wouldn't share a cool down.

This makes even more sense if we think about the reason for the spell. To be able to use on highly mobile situations.

In PvP when a warlock has to constantly run then can only keep their instant cast dots rolling while moving. And it's a drop to DPS on their target because it's dangerous to stop and cast Haunt or UA or Immolate with the enemy right on their tail. Fel Flame would alleviate this by allowing you to keep rolling that 3rd dot on your targets giving you more dmg potential.

The same would be true in PvE, when you are constantly running from dmg areas or spawning mobs. You would keep dots rolling by popping them with Fel Flame.

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Old 04/14/10, 1:31 PM   #15945
Elrid
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Baelgun
Originally Posted by Bonestorm View Post
Sounds like they are trying to get consecrate out of the single target tanking rotation, probably replacing it with crusader strike.
My initial thought was that in the talent tree Crusader Strike will become Improved Crusader Strike (added damage or debuff), making it useful for leveling for all specs, but really only being useful to ret at higher levels for the Imp version. I wonder though if they could also have something in the Prot tree that modifies Crusader Strike to make it more useful for tanking.

Maybe for Ret You make a talent in the tree that improves the damage. Make it scale with str or something

For Prot they could make a talent that adds a debuff to it of some type.

I guess it all depends on how they treat the baseline spell. To me its weird that all 3 specs would have the exact same version though.

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