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Old 05/22/10, 3:39 PM   #16891
Mechanical
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Arathor (EU)
Quick question for the theorycrafters.

It is well know that in the current gear situation, gemming agility instead of dodge in worthy red sockets is the way to go, but as far as I'm aware, the theorycrafting assumes you have all relevant raid buffs including kings.

Would the situation change without kings? And with the 8% buff from drums?

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Old 05/22/10, 6:20 PM   #16892
Subzeronoh
 
Subzeronoh's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Genjuros (EU)
Quel'Delar 2H Sword

Hello,

I'm about to choose reword from [A Victory For The Sunreavers] and I need your help guys, which 2H sword will last longer and will be better weapon for DPS Retribution Paladin?

Quel'Delar, Might of the Faithful:
769 - 1155 Damage (Speed 3.60)
(267.2 damage per second)

+164 Strength
+164 Stamina

Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 99 (2.16% @ L80).
Equip: Improves haste rating by 91 (2.78% @ L80).

Quel'Delar, Ferocity of the Scorned:
727 - 1091 Damage (Speed 3.40)
(267.4 damage per second)

+144 Agility
+136 Stamina

Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 99 (2.16% @ L80).
Equip: Increases attack power by 197.
Equip: Increases your armor penetration rating by 91 (6.5% @ L80).

EDIT: I got a very good answer from Lord Loom, I though it's good to share with everyone:

Originally Posted by Lord Loom
That depends on what content you have access to and what gear you expect to have by the end of this expansion, for which you use a spreadsheet/Rawr to compare. Based on stats and weapon speed, the Str version is probably superior all the time

The first and therefore easily puggable boss in ICC drops 2h strength weapons in both raid sizes, [Citadel Enforcer's Claymore] and [Bryntroll, the Bone Arbiter], if you expect to do ICC regularly and have more than a passing interest in tanking or healing, it may be better to pick [Quel'Delar, Cunning of the Shadows] or [Quel'Delar, Lens of the Mind].

If you plan to keep the weapon until Cataclysm, keep in mind AP as an item stat will mostly disappear, and Paladins will get their AP only from Str, not from Agi.

Last edited by Subzeronoh : 05/22/10 at 8:19 PM.

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Old 05/22/10, 10:35 PM   #16893
Joerrd
 
Orc Warrior
 
Demon Soul
I need a good build man. Everyone tells me to come to this site for builds, yet I see none. I'm a 4.3kGS fury warrior, and I pull 2.6k dps AT THE MOST. My build is 18/53/0. I just need something to pull higher raid/PVE dps. I'd love some help.

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Old 05/22/10, 10:38 PM   #16894
stepijunk
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blackrock
I have 15% haste and 3460 spell power including all buffs, auras and talents. What would give me more dps - 23 spell power or 20 haste gem?

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Old 05/22/10, 11:16 PM   #16895
Pwnzi
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Skullcrusher
Random question and a bit off-topic... Can someone explain the math behind taking +15 strength to gloves over 44AP?

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Old 05/22/10, 11:31 PM   #16896
kc102
Von Kaiser
 
kc102's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Anvilmar
15 str = roughly 35 ap
15 str scales with kings, and procs.

I don't think it's a huge dps difference no matter what you pick.

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Old 05/22/10, 11:39 PM   #16897
Owt
Glass Joe
 
Owt's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by kc102 View Post
15 str = roughly 35 ap
15 str scales with kings, and procs.

I don't think it's a huge dps difference no matter what you pick.
I'm pretty sure the main reason is simply because Ghoul scales with STR, not AP. That on top of Kings/Ravenous Dead/Endless Winter/Fallen Crusader/etc(?) just put it over the top and passed Crusher.

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Old 05/23/10, 12:26 AM   #16898
dev559
 
Orc Rogue
 
Aerie Peak
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7...1710221609.jpg

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Old 05/23/10, 3:58 AM   #16899
DiscoTrash
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Saurfang
That's great guys. Ty for the clear responses. As new gear arrives I will monitor the situation and make decisions with your advice in mind.

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Old 05/23/10, 7:53 AM   #16900
rh8452
Piston Honda
 
rh8452's Avatar
 
Worgen Mage
 
Kel'Thuzad
I futzed around with Unholy tanking (13/5/53) doing a bunch of 10-man hard modes since I was the only class in the raid that could spec a COE debuff talent and a tank didn't show up. Mitigation wasn't too bad. Notable highlights were:

Blood Queen - being the offtank (blood mirror tank) is great because none of the damage eats Bone Shield charges, so you take 20% less damage for the entire fight plus another 6% less magic damage on top of the frost presence/blade barrier reductions. I took vastly less damage than I did last time I did it as blood. My HP never dipped below 50% at any point during the encounter.

Dreamwalker - a complete joke. 15 second DnD with impurity, near-infinite RP, still able to get 4xIT in a rotation? Could probably solo tank it.

Deathwhisper - Obviously the best spec for adds. Boss threat may be an issue with rune strike being noodle-like, I just blew cooldowns and hit the boss hard in frost presence until I passed the starting tank, then blew ITx4 ERW ITx4 for a 300k threat lead before I got the first stack of the debuff.

Blood prince council - Keleseth never hit me for more than 12k. Had 4/6 nuclei fall off in rapid succession during his empowerment, AMSed and took 0 damage. Running around collecting nuclei / getting knocked back from a bad shock vortex I hit 54 stacks of the debuff at one point and never even noticed since bone shield counts against that too. Bone shield uptime really high. AMZ absorbed almost an entire empowered flame. Really good spec for that fight.

Putricide: I cannot recommend this spec enough. Just pestilence diseases onto every add with glyph of disease and laugh. You'll never have any threat issues since DPS will be on adds half the fight while you build a gigantic threat lead on the boss. Your threat and damage is mobile and keeps ticking while you're knocked back by volatile ooze or kiting, bone shield, 6% reduced spell damage taken, AMZ are amazing for phase 3 when plague is stacked high since putricide's melee is not much of a threat to you. Definitely 25-man HM viable.

Saurfang/Festergut: Sucks. Fast, hard hitting physical bosses, it's definitely squishier than blood unless you're really careful with bone shield usage and cooldown rotations. Bone shield needs to be treated as a 20% for 10 seconds shield wall on such fights. Frenzy with him at 80 BP - Bone shield / BT (proc 4pc T10), leading into an IBF. Snap threat is also sketchy, post-taunt some IT spamming is sometimes required if the other tank is being shield slam happy.

Didn't do lich king. I can see it having some viability on heroic lich king with some group comps but blood will probably still come out ahead with WotN, though you will definitely take less soul reaper damage than a blood tank would if you manage cooldowns properly.

Single target DPS is very very strong. Breaking 4.5-5k (with the 15% buff) is easy, I could see doing 6k in a 25-man raid. Rune strike is definitely not as powerful of a threat move as unholy. Perma-ghoul is specced into mostly due to lack of places to put points otherwise, other tank brought imp thunderclap and I didn't need more threat talents. Gargoyle / ghoul contribute roughly 800-1100 dps for 3 talent points because ghoul/gargoyle derive the largest amount of their damage from your strength, which you will still have a lot of in ICC tank gear.

Permaghoul (if managed properly) will also absorb the first hit a boss deals. Just pull with your pet - have it leap/attack as you run in. The boss will do a 180 to hit it just as you get into melee range, so your first attack on the boss will be to its back meaning you're way less likely to get parried. The boss will also not move from its starting position so you won't need to fumble around moving it back like you would on rotface or blood queen. Warriors and druids have opening gap closers, a perma-ghoul serves part of the same purpose for you in regards to boss positioning. It's also a free ~25k heal if you see yourself get clobbered by something. The pet stun is relatively useless on boss fights but has some utility that can't be overlooked as DKs are the only tank class without any trainable stuns.

Overall I would say unholy is definitely still endgame viable and is definitely vastly better than frost at this time for a lot of fights, frost just has way too much bloat in the tree and no good cooldowns. Blood is "king" but there's a number of fights where unholy will outdo it.

Last edited by rh8452 : 05/23/10 at 8:15 AM.

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Old 05/23/10, 8:11 AM   #16901
Ratamahatta
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Nathrezim (EU)
Hi there,

i got nibelung heroic recently and was wondering if the black magic enchant was worth it for the valkyr proc. simcraft says I am losing about 50 dps, but i dunno how reliable it is on such procc things. anyone got any experiences on that?

thank you for answering

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Old 05/23/10, 9:01 AM   #16902
Jep
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Stormscale (EU)
<ZHG

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Old 05/23/10, 9:14 AM   #16903
heavyk
Banned
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Skullcrusher (EU)
Heya,

I have a really stupid question.
Do you have to wield the Shadows' Edge in order for the shards to drop?
Our DK that got his Shadowmourne didn't have another weapon to use so he was not sure.
I on the other hand got Glorenzelg, High-Blade of the Silver Hand from LK normal and since its labeled to be higher DPS than Shadow's Edge, I thought I might aswell use the sword untill I got all shards.


Thanks in advance

/Heavy

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Old 05/23/10, 10:44 AM   #16904
SkagasmAddict
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Bleeding Hollow
I believe it's been mentioned several times in this thread that Blood Mirror is not reduced by % DR abilities like Frost Presence, Blade Barrier, Bone Shield, and IBF. The damage is directly transferred from the MT to you. Unholy probably takes less damage from Delirious Slash and during air phases, but I can't really imagine the situation where it's going to make or break your attempt. AMZ does seem like a good way to make the life of your healers easier though.

--

I've never been in a group that used more than one tank on Dreamwalker-10 of any difficulty level.

DKs do make exceptional Kelseth tanks, Unholy especially. The Kelseth tank never really has to worry about Shadow Prison Stacks though.

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Old 05/23/10, 10:59 AM   #16905
Nyth_
Piston Honda
 
Troll Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
Originally Posted by Pwnzi View Post
Random question and a bit off-topic... Can someone explain the math behind taking +15 strength to gloves over 44AP?
As mentioned before there are many factors.

Just taking all the modifiers already and strength scales quite fast, just look:
1 str = 2 AP
On top of that comes
- Kings,-> 2 * 1.1 = 2.2 AP
- Ravenous Dead -> 2.2 * 1.03 = 2.27 AP
- Endless Winter -> 2.27 * 1.04 = 2.36 AP
- Fallen Crusader -> 2.36 * 1.15 = 2.71 AP

If you add on top all the other factors like Glyph of the Ghoul and scaling with pets, you can understand why the OP mentions that 1 str equals about 3 AP.
15 str is equal to 45 AP then and outclasses Crusher. But that's not really of any major difference. If Crusher is easier for you to get hold of than go with crusher. Mat wise the 15 strength one used to be a lot cheaper, but since they included the auto disenchant people are swimming in enough enchanting mats anyway, so crusher works just fine.

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