Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1136

Pentagram · 05/28/10, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Echion

At around what value of ArP is it beneficial to make the switch to MM from SV being better at lower gear and ArP levels?

Originally Posted by fruitparty

What is the passive bonus needed in order to go mm? so that i can see improvement on my dps

There's no set point, your stats interact and it's very dependant on your gear (particularly your weapon). A good topic is here: The MM Hunter in 3.3

Or you could try the spreadsheet and see for your self.

aberman · 05/28/10, 12:52 PM

I want to post some final answers for everyone as to what are the best specs for maximum DPS for mutilate and combat.

Originally, prior to 3.3.3, when crits did not tick, the best mut spec was 51/18/2 - tott or fok used as glyph (2pts in opportunity strikes). This has now changed BACK to 51/13/7 (no points in Lightning Reflexes - a surprise to me). The glyph also now replaces tott or fok with rupture. The rotation is also now a high rupture rotation with priority to HFB, SnD, then rupture, just like before, using envenom to refresh SnD. Now with crit ticks, the dmg from rupture > envenom, provided that the rupture can completely tick off.

Also, prior to 3.3.3, the best combat spec was 20/51. It still is 20/51; however, instead of 3/3 points in eviserate we now put 1/3. Also, blood spatter is now 2/2 instead of 0/2. The glyph of eviserate is now being replaced with rupture as well. This is also a high rupture rotation. If you dont make the glyph and spec change, the ideal is a low rupture rotation, but max dps is a high rupture rotation if you can swing it. The benefit of blood spatter occurs when rupture is maintained over 40% uptime.

I used the jre-6u20-windows-x64 (java file) downloaded from here to post my results. 4/5 icc pieces is still preferred over 2, perhaps more so now as combo points are needed more for finishers.

I have max dps for 51/13/7 mut with BiS and all buffs & dubuffs but dranei heroic presence at 14207 dps.

Max dps for 20/51/0 combat with BiS and all buffs & debuffs but dranei heroic presence is at 14418 dps, combat passing assassination at the 277 gear mark.

Combat will become even more powerful with the trinket dropped from Ruby Sanctum as this will become BiS with DBW.

Note: max dps was assumed with having an 80% uptime on rupture (dps will be higher if it can be maintained with a greater uptime - though this was not thought to practical) - Also I used jewelcrafting and enchanting as the professions

aberman · 05/28/10, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by Kroyfel

I've always felt like WFS was a bit undervalued in the spreadsheet. I don't know if the spreadsheet accounts for the fact that the proc can have nice synergy with other procs, tricks, CDs, hero/BL etc, but I think that fact makes it really good compared to atleast Herkuml War Token, even if you can always keep the stacks up.

I might be wrong so I guess I'm asking someone who knows better to answer me.

According to the java app downloaded from here (jre-6u20-windows-x64) BiS for mut is Herkuml War Token AND WFS (heroic), no Tiny Abom in A Jar (heroic). This was calculated with 51/13/7 (rupture glyph) and 80% uptime. Resulting dps is 14207.

For combat, 20/51 with 2/2 blood spatter & 1/3 Imp Evi (with rupture instead of evi glyph), BiS was DBW (heroic) & Herkuml War Token. (Also 80% uptime). The resulting dps was 14418. Let me know if you can get a better result with 80% uptime on rupture or less using the app.

ShatteredHallsFeraz · 05/28/10, 2:00 PM

Hi EJ Team - Looking for some advice / theorycrafting around two topics:

1) Exact Opening Rotations

First, for background, my current opening rotation looks like this: Prepot Speed - Serpent Sting - Chimera - Aimed - Steady Steady Steady Steady - Chimera - Aimed (pre-pot wears off) - Rapid Fire - Steady Steady Steady Steady - Chimera - Aimed - Readiness - Chimera - Aimed - Rapid Fire

My rationale is 'why waste haste buffs on insta-shots like Chimera and Aimed', so I pop my instants before I go into rapid fire, then push through with steadys getting the full rapid fire benefit, then hold my readiness to use the next time Chimera and Aimed are on CD.

Two questions on this rotation:

First, does it make sense to stack rapid fire and speed pot (or rapid fire, speed pot, and troll berserking) from the first shot? The opening thread on this forum notes "You will generally get slightly more benefit from stacking haste bonuses than by separating them because they have a multiplicative effect" -- when does this "generally" apply? It seems like spreading out my haste buffs to when my instants are on CD gives me better mileage for the haste via my steady shots and, also, it seems like you lose much of the benefit of haste when you go below the GCD. Any specific theorycrafting that can apply here?

Second question on this rotation, does it make sense to pop readiness immediately after popping rapid fire instead of my current method of waiting until the next set of instants is on CD? I end up extending readiness by about 15-20 seconds (e.g. rapid fire uptime) -- my rationale for indifference being that I generally only get off 2 sets of Rapid Fire x2 / Readiness in any given fight so who cares if one is 15 secs delayed.

2) Cooldown Stacking
We all know it makes sense to stack damage buffs (e.g., Icy Rage, CotW) with Rapid Fire to get the multiplicative effects. However, when is it worth holding off popping that next Rapid Fire to wait for your ICDs?

I feel like after my first opening 10 seconds of awesomeness (when about everything on me that can proc does), I'm stuck nervously hovering over the rapid fire button waiting for my next set of ICDs to free up. I'm watching this complicated set of timers (45 sec on my skull, 60 sec on my ring, etc) and I never know when exactly to pop it to get the full effect. Is there one timer in particular I should watch to ensure maximum benefit? Should I just say screw it and just maximize the number of Rapid Fires that I can squeeze into a fight?

Really appreciate the help EJ!

-Feraz, Shattered Halls

Zhenek · 05/28/10, 2:59 PM

guys, sorry for interfering in your discussion, but can you tell me one thingy about dps values and stuff. I got a very typical arcane build, but one thing worries me greatly: my dps. Is it normal, that my dps is 3500? I mean the dps, for example, counted from, lets say, some bosses from TOC10/25(that means full using of both trinkets and other buffs(I actually got damn macro for all this) I use a very common cast iteration: 3x AB, Am if proced, MB if not, 3xAB ... . Would greatly appreciate if anyone could tell me the maximum dps I can do with this gear I have, coz sometimes I feel uneasy about this, since I dont really understand what I'm doing wrong and when I see other mages with a little bit better gear doing FAR MORE dps and overall dmg. Sorry for any inconvenience if posted in wrong section. Would greatly appreciate the answer and, if possible, any tips.

Piackage · 05/28/10, 7:49 PM

I apologize for bringing up a topic from earlier in the thread, but I have been wondering if any new light had been shed on the situation. In post #'s 408-430 there is a discussion involving Starfreak (one of the best DW Frost DK's in the world) and his unconventional spec (15/56/0 blood subspec) and his use of Glyph of Howling Blast. From what I've learned in my time playing DW Frost and researching the spec here, is that the vast majority of the DK community agrees that the Unholy subspec w/ Glyph of Disease is superior. And yet we have this renegade DK running a spec/glyph setup that no one else runs, and is still able to be competitive amongst the world's best DKs.

Now, this portion of the thread was from back in the end of January before many of the exciting changes took place. But even now, five months later, he has stayed w/ the same spec despite the changes to DW Frost talents and Glyph of Disease. I had noticed that Starfreak had been absent in the forum community since then, so we weren't able to pick his brain anymore. Then I saw he had been forum banned from EJ so we may never really know what his secret is.

What I was wondering is, is there anyone else here in this forum community who is running Starfreak's spec/glyph setup w/ anywhere near the same level of success that could possibly explain some of the nuances of what makes it work? The guy is like Obi-Wan Kenobi, the crazy old man w/ his special powers who disappeared to live the life of a hermit. Shouldn't someone go into the desert and drag his butt back to civilization so he can show us the ways of the Force? All kidding aside though, if there's a way to produce the same or greater dps while gaining a valuable threat-reduction talent and increase my RP gains, I'd think that I'd not be the only one interested in learning how to pull that off.

kelben · 05/28/10, 7:57 PM

I played with starfreak for while in Genesis before he left for cuties only. We had a rather on going debate between the two of us. I would ask him to explain why he did what he did, and then try and explain some of the theory crafting. His would reply would be I don't care in regards to the TC and then he would say he just pushed buttons. That was my eventual conclusion was that he simply was really good at maintain his uptime and pressing his buttons. I am not dissing him in any sense, he simply does what works for him and it works very well. If he changed his spec up, I suspect it would increase his DPS. But as long as what he does works, why would he change? The old expression if it isn't broken, don't fix it is the perfect moto for him.

Feder-Kalecgos · 05/28/10, 9:08 PM

Originally Posted by feable

our highest dps output comes from spamming arcane blast

Man, Spamming arcane blast more than 4 times is complete loss of dps believe me cuz I, for example, Crit with AB after 4 point to roughly 20k-24k damage (in cost of 1.8 cast), while MBar are doing 4.5k (hit) and 9-10k(crit) considering there are 4 of them and if you add 1 Arcane barrage after that wich is around 9k crit it comes up to 25(if no crit at all which is impossile) to 50k in roughly same time. So getting 1 point out of it is useless and your statement is wrong

Xelloss · 05/28/10, 10:27 PM

I have a question, fire soft haste cap is around 785 crit ratting, now for 1h spellpower or black magic which hold more value and would Rawr be update for this soft cap or does haste is still better?

raiky · 05/29/10, 2:26 AM

i dont know how build i use for two-handed sword

The World of Warcraft Armory - Raiiky @ Warsong - Profile

its my character but i doing low dps,

what i do =blood dps, frost dps, or unholy dps??

help me plx

Mango · 05/29/10, 2:37 AM

Here's the full list of changes.
Most notably are...
- Death & Decay = 1 Unholy rune
- Howling Blast = 1 Frost rune
- Scourge Strike = 1 Unholy rune
- Obliterate no longer consumes the diseases by default / no idea on the rune cost yet
- Blood Parasite is pretty damn weird, it basically stacks up a buff that increases its HP and raises the chances that it'll blow up and heal for 10% of its max hp.

Known Bugs
- Scourge Strike cannot be casted off an available death rune while another death rune is recharging.
- Ebon Plague and Icy Talons's durations remain unchanged (needs to reflect the changes made to BP/FF's base duration and Epidemic's duration).
- Reapplying Frost Fever/ Blood Plague at certain intervals increases it's current duration by 2 seconds however it often does not.
- Brittle Bone's duration is infinite.
- DRW is missing when speccd into it.
- Using Icy Touch while Freezing Fog is active does not consume the buff.
- Might of the Frozen Wastes grants 1 rp instead of 10.

Unholy
- Epidemic now has 5 ranks (up from 2).
- New talent Resilient Infection - When your diseases, other than those applied via Pestilence, are dispelled, you have a 50/100% chance to have their cost refunded.
- Hysteria replaced by Unholy Frenzy - Induces a friendly unit into a killing frenzy for 30 sec. The target is Enraged, which increases their melee and ranged haste by 10%, but causes them to lose health equal to 3% of their maximum health every 2 sec. No cost. 30yd range. 3min cooldown
- Outbreak (old tier 2 Unholy talent) renamed to Corrupting Strikes and now increases Plague Strike and Scourge Strike's damage by 30% (old: Plague Strike by 30%, Scourge Strike by 20%).
- Night of the Dead no longer includes your ghoul's AoE avoidance.
- Blood-Caked Blade was moved to the Blood tree.
- Bone Shield was moved to a low-tier Blood tree talent.
- 3/3 Wandering Plague modified to 50% additional damage (down from 100%).

Frost
- Improved Icy Touch changed to only increase your Icy Touch damage by 15% (old included: reduces melee/ranged attack speed by an additional 6%).
- Toughness replaced by the new talent Runic Empowerment - When you use your Death Coil, Frost Strike, or Rune Strike ability, you have a (8/16/24/32/40%) chance to activate a random fully depleted rune.
- Annihilation now increases Obliterate's damage by 10/20/30% (old: Increases the critical strike chance of your melee special abilities by 1%. In addition, there is a 33% chance that your Obliterate will do its damage without consuming diseases.)
- Deathchill replaced by the new talent Brittle Bones - Your Frost Fever chills the bones of its victims, increasing their physical damage taken by 2/4%.
- Unbreakable Armor replaced by the new talent Pillar of Frost - Calls upon the power of Frost to increase the Death Knight's Strength by 20%. Icy crystals hang heavy upon the Death Knight's body, providing immunity against external movement such as knockbacks. Lasts 20 sec. Costs 1 Frost rune. Instant. 1min cooldown.
- Rime now gives your obliterate a 15/30/45% chance to reset the cooldown on Howling Blast and cause your next Howling Blast OR Icy Touch to consume no runes. (old: Increases the critical strike chance of Obliterate and Icy Touch by 5%. Causes only your howling blast to consume no runes).
- Improved Frost Presence: While in Blood/Unholy presence you retain 2% increased runic power generation from Frost presence and your bonus damage while in Frost Presence is increased by an additional 2%.
- Guile of Gorefiend no longer increases your Icebound Fortitude's duration.
- New talent: Might of the Frozen Wastes: When wielding a two-handed weapon, your autoattacks have a 15% chance to generate 10 Runic Power.

Blood
- Subversion replaced with Exsanguinate - Vendetta renamed.
- Death Rune Mastery replaced by Might of Mograine.
- Might of Mograine replaced by Death Rune Mastery.
- Dark Conviction repaced by Bone Shield (bone shield remains unchanged).
- Blood-Caked Blade, Toughness, and Bone Shield are now in the Blood tree.
- New talent: Hemorrhagic Fever - Gives your Blood Boil a 50/100% chance to afflict enemies with Hemmorrhagic Fever, reducing their physical damage dealt by 10% for 30 sec.
- New talent: Crimson Scourge: increases the damage dealt by your Blood Boil by 15%.
- Improved Blood Presence: While in Frost/Unholy presence, you retain 2/4% damage reduction and the chance you will be critically hit by melee attacks is reduced by 3/6% in blood presence.
- Improved Death Strike granted another rank. Increases the damage of your death strike by 15/30/45%, increases its critical strike chance by 3/6/9 %, and increases the healing granted by 25/50/75%.
- Bloodworms replaced by Blood Parasite - Your weapon hits have a 3/6/9% chance to cause the target to spawn a Bloodworm. The Bloodworm attacks your enemies, gorging itself with blood until it bursts to heal nearby allies. Lasts up to 20 sec.
- Blood worm: Initial Health: 10187. Stacks Blood Gorged - May burst, healing neraby allies for 10% of its maximum health. Stacks 14 times.

- New talent Sanguine Fortitude - While active, your Icebound Fortitude reduces damage taken by an additional 10/20/30% and costs 33/66/100% less runic power to activate.
- Will of the Necropolis changed - When a damaging attack brings you below 30% of your maximum health, you generate a Blood Rune and the cooldown on your Rune Tap ability is refreshed, and all damage taken is reduced by 8/16/24% for 8 sec. This effect canot occur more than once very 15 seconds.
- Veteran of the Third War changed to increase your total stamin by 3/6/8% and expertise by 2/4/6.

Ability/Mechanic Changes
- Death Grip can now only be casted on a target that is 8 to 30 yards away (old 1-30).
- Frost Fever and Blood Plague now has a base duration of 30 seconds (up from 15).
- Ebon Plague now increases magical damage by 9% (down from 13%).
- Re-applying FF/BP before it runs out adds 2 seconds to it's current duration.
- FF/BP damage ticks no longer clip when re-applying diseases.
- Horn of Winter now increases your total strength and agility by 419 (up from 155).
- Death and Decay now costs 1 Unholy Rune.
- Scourge Strike now costs 1 Unholy Rune.
- Howling Blast now only costs 1 Frost Rune.
- Rune Strike is now instant.
- Diseases spread from Pestilence deal half damage.
- Icebound Fortitude no longer gains additional damage reduction based on defense.
- Obliterate no longer consumes diseases by default
- Blood Presence - The death knight takes on the presence of Blood, increasing Stamina by 8%, armor contribution from cloth, leather, mail and plate items by 60%, and reducing damage taken by 8%. Increases threat generated.
- Frost Presence - Strengthens the Death Knight with the presence of Frost, increasing damage by 10% and increasing Runic Power generation by 10%.
- Unholy Presence: Increased attack speed and rune regeneration by 10%, movement by 15% (old: Increases attack speed by 15%).
- Hysteria replaced by Unholy Frenzy - Induces a friendly unit into a killing frenzy for 30 sec. The target is Enraged, which increases their melee and ranged haste by 10%, but causes them to lose health equal to 3% of their maximum health every 2 sec. No cost. 30yd range. 3min cooldown
- Unbreakable Armor replaced by the new talent Pillar of Frost - Calls upon the power of Frost to increase the Death Knight's Strength by 20%. Icy crystals hang heavy upon the Death Knight's body, providing immunity against external movement such as knockbacks. Lasts 20 sec. Costs 1 Frost rune. Instant. 1min cooldown.
- Dancing Rune Weapon now grants an additional 20% parry chance while active.

Damage changes
- Blood Strike now has a base 80% weapon damage modifier (up from 40%).
- Heart Strike now has a base 100% weapon damage modifier (up from 50%)
- Obltierate now has a base 160% weapon damage modifier (up from 80%).
- Frost strike now has a base 110% weapon damage modifier (up from 55%).
- Rune Strike now deals double it's amount from live.
- Plague Strike now has a base 100% weapon damage modifier (up from 50%).
- Scourge Strike now has a base 100% weapon damage modifier (up from 70%).
- Death Strike has a base 150% weapon damage modifier (up from 75%).

Mastery
Mastery gains cap at 51 pts.

Blood
Damage Reduction - Reduces damage taken by a percentage.
Mastery per Talent: 0.157
Mastery Total: 8.01%

Vengeance - Each time you take damage, you gain a percentage of the damage taken as attack power, up to a maximum of twice your Vengeance percentage of your Stamina.
Mastery per Talent: 0.098
Mastery Total: 5%

Life Shield - Each time you heal yourself via Death Strike, you gain a percentage of the amount healed as a damage absorption shield.
Mastery per Talent: 1.97
Mastery Total: 100.47%

Frost
Damage - Increases all damage done by a percentage.
Mastery per Talent: 0.157
Mastery Total: 8.01%

Melee Haste - Grants a percentage of melee haste.
Mastery per Talent: 0.157
Mastery Total: 8.01%

Runic Power - Increases all runic power gains by a percentage.
Mastery per Talent: 0.393
Mastery Total: 20.04%

Unholy
Damage - Increases all damage done by a percentage.
Mastery per Talent: 0.157
Mastery Total: 8.01%

Melee Crit - Increases your chance for melee attacks to be critical strikes by a percentage.
Mastery per Talent: 0.157
Mastery Total: 8.01%

Disease Damage - Increases the damage done by your diseases by a percentage.
Mastery per Talent: 0.393
Mastery Total: 20.04%

Pinch · 05/29/10, 3:37 AM

Originally Posted by Docrev

Docrev said things

Why are you trying to make an alpha talent build when the person who made the calculator has made quite a few extreme errors? Alpha is still under the NDA. You should all really stop posting your speculations from incomplete data-mining.

HellEnvenom · 05/29/10, 5:30 AM

Not sure if there is a beta confidentiality clause in the user agreement. Did not read the agreement. Would I be safe posting things I have noticed from it?

Trasian · 05/29/10, 8:32 AM

Hay other Gdkp leaders..

i have now hosted more that 50 Gdkp raids on EU - Ravencrest - Horde
And ppl just love it
have handled more that 1.200.000 gold
and have now been thinking sometime how can we improve Gdkp thats why i call out now.

I would really love if i could get some of all the big Gdkp makers to Sent me a pm here to maby call a meeting at some point and talk about how we can improve it.

I will try to get in touch with the maker of the GRM addon and see if he would like to join also.

So join my case and take Gdkp to the next step

Tschango · 05/29/10, 10:03 AM

Hey!

I'm sry for my bad english...i'm german

I want to know what can i do better on my feral tank. I got no idea's, but I'm still thinking thats something wrong with my char.

can you plz help me?

Thx 4 Reply's