perfect thanks

forgive me if i missed something, couldn't scan the entire thread after all >.>

I'm looking at sublety in part cause Arp only gear options is giving me a headache in my MUT preference, I'm not a fan of combat mechanics, but I do not want to be a fool and take a massive dps loss just because I'm difficult >.> since Sublety
was a choice PvE the changes to rogues, aside from the original OP'ness fix should only buff the build, by that I mean the improvements to Rupture and few others, It also comes across as the build that gains the most from arp, seeing as combat still has near 30% coming from poison application and a little more from Rupture as well. It takes about the Arp we have access to now to make Evisc in anyway desirable. I question alot of the thought process in this forum on the basis of maximum dps possible.

alot of talk about Shadow Dance, when it constitutes maybe an extra 20k damage a minute, I don't want to write it off without a viable spreadsheet as evidence, but I wouldn't be suprised if the talent point isn't worth it (considering how much tunneling you'd need for the full effect you would end up using it every 1.2 minutes or so waiting for good timing.

everyone seems set on Hemo for cp, and at the same time, using a non-dagger and swapping for Shadow Dance but hemo is modified to get equal damage from daggers, and more importantly, backstab is better dpe unless you glyph for hemo why isn't anyone picking up on it as usable? theres space in the talent spec for Puncturing wounds, so it would have a 92% crit chance if your hardcapped. the backstab glyph gets you more then the rupture glyph, it even fits better into a 4 second cycle of finishers. I prefer keeping my damage for myself as well :P

sum total, i see sublety as better Arp synnergy, the best energy generation, the strongest finisher power(I may have missed it in thread but you can shadowstep for every Rupture, if your talented for its max damage, thats just strait massive bleed) you lose poison damage which has always had gear scaling issues. and is anathema to your crit/arp itemization anyway. I'd bet Backstab even shows better numbers then SS or MuT if not the combo gen, which is covered anyway. so where would it really lose? white damage? wtb a spreadsheet for a real answer, unfortunatly the gearing to do my own comparison properly is beyond me. specialy since sublety cant be tested on a dummy T.T plz give me an Aha! moment.

I'm as dumb as I look, delete

I've been looking at mages who claim that Fire deals more dps and it most likely does, once you have the gear. In Arcane I have 3019 SP and 1095 Haste. In Fire, its noticably less. You really shouldn't switch to Fire until your Full Sanctified and raiding in Heroic ICCs. In Arcane I out dps just about everyone I come across who doesn't have a regular raid, and I out dps many who do have regulars but I know that I wont stand a chance against a full Sanctified Fire mage who has a regular Heroic ICC. Pretty much what I'm trying to say is that it really all depends on your gear and your stats.