Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1210

dublife · 07/16/10, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by Larisroth

Runeforges
Runeforges with a PPM appear to have the same PPM when used in the offhand. Using the same Runeforge on both weapons while dual weilding still only applies a single buff.
Cinderglacier is a 1.5 PPM enchant. It puts up 30 second buff with the same name and 2 charges. Blood Boil, Icy Touch, Death Coil and any Scourge Strike will consume a charge of the buff. Death and Decay, diseases and appropriate weapon procs will be buffed by the damage but not consume a charge. Icy Touch using the last charge will still buff the ensuing frost fever.
Razorice is either a high PPM enchant or has a flat rate. In 3.3.3 it will be applied by every attack. It has 2 effects, one called Razor Frost that does 2% of your mainhand weapon damage as frost damage (around 10 damage), the other provides a stacking buff called Frost Vulnerability that buffs your frost damage by up to 10% for 20 seconds. In 3.3.3 it will stack 5 times at 2% which currently it's 10 times at 1%.
Fallen Crusader is a 2.0 PPM enchant. The buff is called Unholy Strength buffs your strength by 15% and lasts 15 seconds.

I'm sorry, but I don't think I understand this. Are you saying that using the same Runeforge to inscribe one's 1h weapons only applies one of the ppm? Did you mean the same rune inscription? That would make more sense.

Does this mean I SHOULD NOT inscribe Rune of the Nerubian Carapace on both weapons as stated in DW Tanking Builds 3.3 - updated 12/01/10.

If I understand this correctly, in the second paragraph you state that using two 1h weapons with Cinderglacier would cause both to proc if only one procs (1 buff with 2 charges), since you state you get both buffs at once, which is different than what you are trying to convey in the first sentence.

If possible, could you clear this up for me a bit, and for other who may also have an issue with this.

aoism · 07/16/10, 4:26 PM

Hey guys, first post here but long time reader. I'm concerned over my numbers compared to another Mage that we raid with, who is lesser but differently geared. I'm not sure if its me or my gear here and I was hoping for some advice. I've been Arcane since ICC released but in seeing the numbers Fire is putting out, I switched. My gear is still primary Arcane-centric (Haste over Crit). RAWR models me as doing 13,896 DPS, and our other Mage as doing 12,970. I should be a full 1k over him, but he is always tied or slightly higher than me on the majority of fights. Here's our armories:

Me: The World of Warcraft Armory - Yziemon @ Cho'gall - Profile
Him: The World of Warcraft Armory - @ - Profile

(Ignore the extra Hit I have, I had to equip the +hit Off hand for another raid but I used the 264 Shadow Silk Spindle in the parse)

And heres a log of one example of this trend I am noticing: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

( We are #1 and #2 )

Now he does have 10% more Crit than I do base. I know Crit is a huge factor in Fire's dominance, but RAWR should take that in to consideration shouldn't it?

Things I've noticed about the log:
1) He crits more than I do (duh)
2) His fireballs on average do more damage than mine
3) My Pyroblasts hit harder than his
4) I get more casts in due to my haste
5) I somehow missed with 1 Pyroblast (though I am hit capped and we had +hit in the raid). Even if I crit with it, I would have only topped him by 2k
6) I have slightly higher Ignite uptime, he has slightly higher LB uptime getting 3 more ticks in than I.
7) He dominated me on LB damage done, presumably because most of his ticks were crits.
8) I was missing Focus magic there for 3% more crit

Is the main reason I was beat solely because of his crit? Is RAWR not modeling my DPS properly? Should I go back to Arcane until I get get some more crit? Am I just a terrible Mage?

Any assistance would be great here. Thanks guys!

Morrtir · 07/16/10, 5:40 PM

Originally Posted by dublife

I'm sorry, but I don't think I understand this. Are you saying that using the same Runeforge to inscribe one's 1h weapons only applies one of the ppm? Did you mean the same rune inscription? That would make more sense.

Does this mean I SHOULD NOT inscribe Rune of the Nerubian Carapace on both weapons as stated in DW Tanking Builds 3.3 - updated 12/01/10.

If I understand this correctly, in the second paragraph you state that using two 1h weapons with Cinderglacier would cause both to proc if only one procs (1 buff with 2 charges), since you state you get both buffs at once, which is different than what you are trying to convey in the first sentence.

If possible, could you clear this up for me a bit, and for other who may also have an issue with this.

It doesn't sound like you understand what PPM means.

I read his post as very simply stating that if you were to, say, put FC on both weapons, it would still be a 2 PPM enchant and the buffs would not stack. Nerubian Carapace has nothing to do with that and you could have very easily tested that by simply applying the enchant to two weapons and equipping them one at a time to see if your health/defense increased. In fact, that enchant is specifically designed to stack. Each enchant provides 13 defense and 1% stamina.

And no, using two 1h weapons with Cinderglacier would not cause both to proc if only one procs. He is very simply stating that you can not get two separate debuffs on the boss by using Cinderglacier on both weapons. The Cinderglacier proc itself (regardless of if it is on one or both weapons) applies a debuff that has two charges.

Thumos · 07/16/10, 6:15 PM

I'm having a bit of trouble compiling all of the info regarding if and when to cancel the 10 second STR buff from Shadowmourne in order to be able to start stacking fragments immediately. Could I get some advice please.

Minidots · 07/16/10, 7:28 PM

WoW Heroes - World of Warcraft PvE character info & ratings

New to posting on this type of forum, so pardon me if I've not followed procedure.

I'm a fairly well geared Demo Lock thanks to a great group of guys, but I'm stumped, so I call on the experts.

SP=3214
Hit=402
Crit=37.46%
Haste=1244

with the gear currently equiped. Heros Link above. But I also have the 264 version of Phylactery of the Nameless Lich. 152 Crit, 1074 SP for 20s, 100s ICD.

Could I be so far over the soft haste cap that Charmed Twilight Scale is not benefitting me? I've seen a DPS drop, and I can't understand why.

Again If this post is not in the correct space, forgive me. I'm just looking for some help.

Thanks for all youur great work making this game just a bit more fun for all of us.

aoism · 07/16/10, 7:36 PM

Originally Posted by Obamarama

Ice Shards -- Useful only for AoE unless mirror images benefit from this. Not very useful in boss fights, therefore low priority

Frost Warding -- I have this talent because I have Incanter's Absorption as well. How useful is this mana gain and survivability? Should Ice Shards be prioritized above this? How much value does this lose if you drop IA (see below)?

Arcane Focus -- Opportunity cost is a point in any Arcane Talent (focusing on the ones listed below)

Arcane Stability -- I remember reading that 60% was the golden number you wanted from this. Source/explanation needed.

Arcane Subtlety -- How important is threat reduction in today's raiding environment? Is this negligible because of Invisibility and Mirror Image for threat management?

Magic Attunement -- I grabbed a point in here for convenience and out of my BC mage upbringing. Is this really worth it considering the boss fights in ICC?

Prismatic Cloak -- 3 points here provides an instant threat drop and some nice survivability. 2 of these points could come from Arcane Subtlety, as the threat drop negates the usefulness of that talent. Is the third point worth it? It triggers the GCD anyway, so you'll still be waiting half a second after you fade to cast your next move. Combine this with a cancelaura macro in that half second (spammable as the invis buff doesn't show up until you fade) and you have a threat wipe for the cost of a GCD.

Incanter's Absorption -- From Ensidia's forums: "fire/frost ward absorbs about 4.5k with 3k spellpower, which would be 675 sp for 10 sec, every 30 sec on fights with fire/frost damage." Is this worth the points here? What if you have Frost Warding?

Slow -- 1 point for utility. How many fights is this applicable to? This seems to be dependent on raid comp and if your raid needs that slow.

Please correct me if I am wrong about anything I posted and provide any input you have.

Ice Shards: AOE is a large component of some of the fights. Its worth taking over Permafrost or Warding. Other than trash, which slows the raid down, LDW, Gunship, Dreamwalker, Sindragosa, and LK all have AOE opportunities.

Frost Warding isn't very good outside of PVP. The only fights in T10 content that you have a chance of being hit with unavoidable frost damage are LDW Volley, Sindragosa, and LK. I dont think any fights in ICC have unavoidable fire damage. It's not worth burning a GCD to apply every 30 seconds.

Arcane Focus is great for the mana reduction. You have so much hit in ICC gear that it doesn't matter as much, but having more mana is always great!

Arcane Stability is typically where some mages chose to put 3 points, or 0 points at all in. Not too many fights have constant pushback mechanics so I opted not to take it on my mage. Its good for Marrowgar, and the Plague Wing dogs, though. I can't recall if the transition phases on LK pushback casting.

Arcane subtlety: 1 point is good, 2 points may be overkill. I never pull threat with 1 point in it. Keep in mind that Mirror Images does not reduce your threat. It postpones it. If you pop MI when you are at 120%, burn a boss until 180%, and your mirror images fade, you suddenly have 180% threat. Invisibility is your only threat drop (other than dying!)

Magic Attunement: I like 2 points in this. Depending on your raid comp you may want to take 0 or 2 points. On fights like Saurfang and Princes where you need to spread out, it can get pretty crammed. Having an extra 6 yards is useful for position. Also if you ever need to kite Zombies on Dreamwalker, its useful to have the extra spacing.

Prismatic Cloak - PVP only talent. Not useful in PVE. See notes on Threat. The only time you should invis in ICC is to prevent yourself from getting hit with Tear Gas on Putricide, or to avoid dying in a wipe. If you pull threat as Arcane, find a better tank! When I invis from pulling threat (say for instance from not paying attention to my threat on heroic LDW), I'm at 36 yards from the boss. I cast invis then start running. No problems

Incanters Absorbtion: Terrible since they removed priest shields from triggering this. It was amazing during TOC days though.

Slow: Very very very useful in certain situations. On LDW it slows the casts of Adherants and slows any of your team mates who get MCed and break loose to chase after the mage that sheeped them, on Saurfang it slows beasts, on PP it helps trigger your Torment of the Weak on slimes before DPS gets on it, as it wont have a tank applying a slow debuff. On Dreamwalker it slows zombies that you are kiting, and Liches that cast an annoying frost bolt volley. And finally on LK it slows Valkyrs!

I've found as arcane you pretty much go with the cookie cutter build then decide whether you want stability or range + slow. Those are your floater points.

Hope this helps!

NicodemusAtNIMH · 07/16/10, 11:01 PM

My hunter is close to cap at 259, if i re gem with the suggestion it puts me way above, the hit. The more hit you have doses that equal the greater chances of misses happen?

Faqu · 07/17/10, 2:24 AM

Now I was searching but couldn't find any thing on this so I apoligize if its been mentioned.

I've been going off the BiS Resto Set under the thinktank but I noticed that alot of the new BiS is from Halion, basically my question is should I be going off the BiS list with the highest HEP Values and skip my 4piece T10 setup I have currently? I wasn't sure if it would benefit to keep the 4 piece T10 and go for those few pieces off Halion or just forget the Set Bonuses period and go for everything in the BiS list which means only the 2 set bonus..I tried messing around with Rawr but wasn't really helping me. Thanks

testthewest · 07/17/10, 6:04 AM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

While I like the idea of Lava Burst's cooldown resetting, I don't like you can "lose" the reset if it happens right as the spell normally resets. Using Lock N' Load seems like a good idea.

I'm not sure about that "lock and load" benefit. Let's assume you cast LvB and now have an 8 sec cd. Then your FS dot procs. You get the Lock N' Load, but still have alot of cd still ahead. Next FS dot-tick procs it again. And the next as well.

Now what should blizz do about that? Letting you lose 2 procs out of 3? Or giving you the burst of 4 LvB in a row, which you know in advance? If it would be stackable, is pvp just casting FS to accumulate 10 proccs, then annihilate your opponent?

So unless I make a mistake, LnL can still cost you charges, basicly in 9%.

Kilted Raven · 07/17/10, 9:33 AM

Originally Posted by Horac

I don't personally have much to say on the dps talents. I have thrown some dps spells out there on occasion when time and mana allowed but I don't know if these talents will make me do it more often.

I think that looks likely to change in Cataclsym, based on the comments we've had so far.

Wrath's healing model was entirely based around throughput and constant casting, irrespective of actual incoming damage. Mana was essentially a non issue.

They seem to be moving very deliberately towards a model where constant healing is neither required nor advisable, which means we'll find ourselves with GCDs spare where we don't necessarily want to throw a heal. I expect some of those will be used up by moving out of the fire, because not being able to stop healing long enough to move has been a bugbear of this expansion. Plus we're seeing more 'cast on the move' talents being added to the various classes, so we I'd also expect to see more movement based fights as a result.

But beyond that we're looking at having spare time where burning mana on heals isn't going to be the best plan around, so being able to contribute dps and possibly gain some mana back feels like it's going to be a good strategy.

I can see why they are struggling to make Spirit Link work, enforcing a damage share on someone else is moving into the 'Life Grip' category of abilities, not to mention being tricky to make a dual friendly target spell newbie-friendly with the default UI unless you use a focus.
The only way I could see it working was some kind of Guardian of Souls type ability where you targetted the tank and a portion of his incoming damage was split back to his current target. But even that feels clunky to be honest.

Lucrece · 07/17/10, 12:31 PM

Don't hold your breath, Balancemoon. When it comes to balance spec, they've always done the minimum of what change can be expected. It was so in BC beta, it remained that way in WotLK, and I'm certain that outside of their beloved eclipse gimmick, they will not revamp moonkin form to transform spells or design the eclipse bar with enough complexity that they need to account for different scales of energy.

Just look at the classes they revamped. Paladins, warlocks, and hunters. These were not languishing classes; they functioned fairly well.

For them, we meet their rather low standards of what's fine.

If I get into beta, I'm going to get loud like the best of them, but I'll definitely have a back-up of feedback for smaller number tweaks and mechanical changes. Overhauls on broken aspects doesn't happen often with Blizzard, and they're quite whimsical about it.

Tattari · 07/17/10, 6:02 PM

From my point of view as a frost dk
i think the main subspec now would be Blood till 3/3 blood caked blades
cuz blizzard made necrosis a Tier 3 talent in unholy

and according to this blue post

A. Runic Empowerment is being changed to a trained ability so that all specializations can access it without feeling forced to, since we see it as a core part of death knight gameplay in Cataclysm. The way the talent is engineered, it should never disrupt your rotation, but rather give you bonus resources layered on top of your rotation. The proc rate is high enough that the actual variability in procs over time shouldn’t be excessive.

Runic Empowerment will be removed from the tree .. and become a passive learned ability

what will it be replaced with .. we dont know yet

and seeing how much blizzard buffed both Frost Strike and obliterate
it would seem Virulence is kinda less attractive than the way it used to be
but seeing the rime proc going up to 45% makes it more attractive
so it's either epidemic or virulence and can't tell which is better for now ..

and Chill of the grave 1/2 might be enough imo supposedly that the runic power regen from the mastery is THAT good that you will reach the 130 runic power fast enough that u wont need Chill of the grave

these all are just theories and opinions

my frost spec would be something like

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

.

ciridan · 07/17/10, 6:22 PM

Rawr keeps on QQing H Bryn is better (40 points) Then my H Bloodfall...
Should I listen? I did tick on raid buffs like motw etc

Nate1492 · 07/17/10, 11:04 PM

Even if the "plate gear for plate wearers" pans out... Weapons, Rings, Trinkets, Capes, Guns, and Offhands have no armor type attached, so you may find warriors not getting leather gear, but still rolling on agi pieces.

Bringost · 07/18/10, 3:13 AM

@ Tattari

Q. Is there any intent to bring back the On A Pale Horse talent for Death Knights, possibly in a different tree?
A. Yes, On a Pale Horse is back as a sub-specialization-accessible Frost talent in our latest internal build.

Still early but i guess thats the filler.