Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1231

eylieen · 08/07/10, 10:20 PM

i've played mutilate of this expansion, pretty much all bosses in the game, and i'm now looking to try out combat properly. with aldrianna's new sheet, the recommendation was a low-rupture spec using quick king's ambers in yellow. as happy as i am at not having to change every gem to arp, i'm curious as to what's defined as a 'low rupture' cycle? sorry for the stupid question, but the extent of my experience was high rupture in t7, i cannot really understand the uptime of a low rupture cycle.
thanks in advance.

Feist-Mok · 08/07/10, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by eylieen

i've played mutilate of this expansion, pretty much all bosses in the game, and i'm now looking to try out combat properly. with aldrianna's new sheet, the recommendation was a low-rupture spec using quick king's ambers in yellow. as happy as i am at not having to change every gem to arp, i'm curious as to what's defined as a 'low rupture' cycle? sorry for the stupid question, but the extent of my experience was high rupture in t7, i cannot really understand the uptime of a low rupture cycle.
thanks in advance.

Low rupture means you'd prioritize squeezing in an Eviscerate at the expense of losing some rupture uptime, rather than refresh Slice and Dice extremely early or capping energy. An easy way to think of it is as a priority system:

Every time you have 5 combo points, follow the decision tree:

Is SnD down, going to fade before Energy reaches 90, or going to fall off before it will be possible to reach 5 CP's again? If so, SnD.
Is Rupture not on the target, or going to fall off the target before energy reaches 90? If so, Rupture.
If both Rupture and SnD are running and won't fall off in the time you have available to pool, Eviscerate.

Anthropology · 08/07/10, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by eylieen

i've played mutilate of this expansion, pretty much all bosses in the game, and i'm now looking to try out combat properly. with aldrianna's new sheet, the recommendation was a low-rupture spec using quick king's ambers in yellow. as happy as i am at not having to change every gem to arp, i'm curious as to what's defined as a 'low rupture' cycle? sorry for the stupid question, but the extent of my experience was high rupture in t7, i cannot really understand the uptime of a low rupture cycle.
thanks in advance.

On the "Cycles" page of the spreadsheet, there's a description of all three.

Low Rupture is a 3 finisher cycle – SnD, Evis, and Rupture – which prioritizes efficient combo point usage. In practice, this is functionally identical to Eviscerate Only, except that instead of Eviscerating whenever you have 5 CP and don't need to refresh SnD, you Rupture if it's down and Eviscerate otherwise. All timings in terms of Slice and Dice are identical.

If you chose to spec for and use rupture, try to get as close to 100% uptime as you can, without letting Slice and Dice drop. If I'm not mistaken, in both rupture cycles, you only rupture at 5 CP.

Edit: Feist's description above is much better.

Kairn · 08/07/10, 11:44 PM

I would defer to Landsoul's spreadsheet in any/all gear choices especially over rawr. You should also take into account hit vs. exp and whether or not you have off pieces that you can swap out to bring these stats back down closer to the caps.

exseawolf · 08/08/10, 1:08 AM

I am a combat rogue and I was topping out at 8500k melee dps using the SnD-Eviscerate cycles from elitistjerks spreadsheet recommendations. I was not using rupture at all. I attempted something different today and I incorporated expose armor having a SnD-Expose Armor-Eviscerate rotation. The expose armor lowers the armor of the boss by 20%... and consequently.... increased my dps by 1500k and every melee damaging avatar increased. Another 2900 gs rogue (mut spec) was doing 11k ib fester, 10k on rotface. Expose armor increases the potential of all melee classes. I think this rotation will make the combat rogue popular again vs the mutilate envenom copycats.

My question now is will expose armor and sunder armor stack

Deathstrikez111 · 08/08/10, 1:33 AM

Hey all If I'm an unholy dps with a blood sub-spec reaping would The herkuml war token or 251 whispering fanged skull be better for my dps? thanks. here is my armory
The World of Warcraft Armory - Deathstrikez @ Arathor - Profile

Honzu · 08/08/10, 1:53 AM

No they don't stack. The reason Rogues, at least how I have come to understand it, don't use expose armor is because the DPS cost is lower for warriors, at least in the long run.

Khaosknight · 08/08/10, 3:54 AM

Originally Posted by Deathstrikez111

Hey all If I'm an unholy dps with a blood sub-spec reaping would The herkuml war token or 251 whispering fanged skull be better for my dps? thanks. here is my armory
The World of Warcraft Armory - Deathstrikez @ Arathor - Profile

Spreadsheets are your friend. As is the OP of this thread.

Originally Posted by Consider

Both tier 10 set bonuses are assumed. Unless otherwise stated the sub Blood numbers utilize Cryptmaker, while the sub Frost numbers use Bryntroll.

Stat	Blood ilvl 264	Blood ilvl 277	Frost ilvl 264	Frost ilvl 277	Frost SM
Strength	2.94	2.96	3.11	3.10	3.11
Haste	2.06	2.13	2.75	2.87	2.97
Armor Pen	2.57	2.85	2.29	2.58	2.87
Crit	1.94	2.00	1.91	2.00	2.11
Agility	1.34	1.35	1.28	1.35	1.41
Melee Hit	3.59	3.64	3.55	3.43	3.70
Spell Hit	0.52	0.55	0.65	0.58	0.63
Expertise	1.58	1.63	1.49	1.52	1.97
Weapon DPS	7.71	7.75	6.96	7.04	7.43
Weapon Speed	32.86	40.85	28.99	32.39	35.14

Meanwhile, if you look at the trinket section of the OP, you'll see the answer to your question in a nice table. The war token is labled as 5th BiS, Whispering Fang is 8th.

DarkKnight388 · 08/08/10, 5:49 AM

Originally Posted by Honzu

No they don't stack. The reason Rogues, at least how I have come to understand it, don't use expose armor is because the DPS cost is lower for warriors, at least in the long run.

Yes, partly. But the most important reason is that a lot of raids have prot warriors in them, and they use sunder armor as threat building and costs nothing (okay, almost nothing) for them compared to rogues losing significant potential dps by using expose armor.
In case there is no warrior in your group, then using expose armor will increase melee dps by quite a margin indeed.

Noktelius · 08/08/10, 6:37 AM

I'm very limited by my English skills but I would like to share a few ideas.

Talent changes :

Assassination :

Deadly Momentum : I think we won't see any effect most of the time. I would prefer something like Smell of Death : “When a foe or an ally dies near you, you have a 50/100 % chance to gain a 10 sec Slice and Dice.” Not a refresh, just a proc out of nowhere, no need for a killing blow. If something dies, you got it ! It would be fun ! It could be a very strong talent for an assassination rogue when the mobs are dying too fast : No Rupture, no energy, no chocolate...

Ruthlessness : I need a two point talent here ! “Gives your melee finishing moves a 30/60 % chance to add a combo point to your target.” This is very important for a Combat rogue rotation : Better CP generation and less predictable cycle. I need the full effect with a 7/31/3 template.

Combat :

Improved Sinister Strike : With the possible return of Relentless Strikes in the template, the use of Adrenaline Rush and Killing Spree more frequently, I think we will often need to spend energy quickly. I would give Improved Sinister Strike a better CP generation rather than a lower energy cost. For example 10/20/30 % chance to proc another CP. Having a good chance to waste a proc when you already have four CPs could legitimate the use of another CP generator like Revealing Strike. The glyph of Sinister Strike could add 20% to that bonus, for example.

Lightning Reflexes : Currently gives you 10% passive haste.
- It could be : “Increases the haste from your Slice and Dice ability by X %” to feel a little less passive but it may sounds like an other improved Slice and Dice.
- It could also be : “+X % haste when your rupture is active” to increase the gap between a higher rupture uptime and a lower one.

Others ideas :

The 2p T10 effect is very interesting to me, I would like to see a talent with the same kind of effect. Something like “+15 energy, 30 sec cooldown”. When I need to pool energy, I can delay the use of this ability, and I can use it to land a new 5 CPs Rupture as soon as possible.

To lower the part of passive damage in our dps, we have to increase the damages generated through energy but it could lead to balance issues in PVP : Starting a fight with a full bar could be too bursty. It may be a solution to cap the energy level at 50% out of combat. After a vanish, the energy level could decrease to 50% if the rogue idle too long.

I would split Quickening in two talents, the healing bonus and the speed bonus. For an assassination rogue, the healing bonus, the mobility bonus and the damage reduction are passive and very powerful. The raiding combat rogue is far behind...

Assassination has free Slice and Dice, Subtlety has free Rupture, Combat need something to maintain Expose Armor, maybe through Evisceration. I would like to spend my CPs for : Slice and Dice > Rupture > Evisceration or Recuperate as a combat rogue.

killingspree · 08/08/10, 11:46 AM

Hey guys, I'm having big problems with Unholy... I've followed the guide posted and i'm performing really poorly, are there key components not mentioned in the guide I should be looking for?... I'm dual specced DW Frost/Unholy.. I know dummies and heroics aren't a good indication of DPS, but I done the weekly (XT) as well... Frost currently I pull around 6.2-6.6k on the target dummy... do about the same and more on heroic bosses... I pulled over 8200 dps in VoA and do 10+k in ICC (buff at 30%). I did do a few bosses as Unholy but I was kinda waiting for a good 2 hander before I started using it more, and recently acquired the Shadow's Edge... so never a better time right?... Going balls out on a target dummy (with gargoyle) I'm barely doing 5k. Doing 4.5-5.6 in heroics. Around 7kish in ICC. So huge dps loss for me, and I can't figure it out. My current (unbuffed) stats are.

Power:5405
Haste:382 (15.14%)
Hit:296 (9.03%)
Crit: 34.03%
Expertise: 17 (4.25% reduction)

I'm gemmed pretty much All strength, There are a few gems I know I need to replace... But replacing them will really only benefit me by 30 or so haste.... I'm using

Spec 17/0/54 (With Reaping)
Major Glpyhs: Dark Death, Icy Touch, Glpyh of the Ghoul
Minor: Pestilence, Blood Tap, Raise Dead

T10 Helmet (Gemming 21 Agil and 3% Crit with 20 Strength, Chanted 50AP-20Crit)
T10 Shoulders (Gemmed 20 Strength Chanted 40ap 15Crit) for the 2P10 Bonus,
Ahn'kahar Neckgard (264-Gemmed 20 Strength),
Saronite Gargoyle Cloak (Heroic 264-Gemmed 20 Strength, Chanted 22 agil),
Bladed-Scored Carapace (Heroic 264-Gemmed 3x20Strength Chanted +10 Stats),
Throatrender Handguards (Heroic 264-Gemmed 20strength/10strength-10Crit, Chanted +44AP),
Malevolent Girdle (Frost badge belt, Gemmed 2x20Strength Nightmare tear), (Have Heroic Gurney Strap in Bank)
Legplates of Aentheric Strife (251-Gemmed 3x20Strength, Chanted 75Ap 22Crit),
Bone Drake's Enamled Boots (251 Gemmed 2x20Strength, Chanted 32AP),
Malykris Vambraces (232 Chanted +50AP)

Ashen Band of Endless might (Gemmed 10Strength-10Crit),
Skeleton Lord's Circle (264 Gemmed 10 Strength-10Crit)

Herkami War Token
Mirror of Truth (have Scorpion in bank but heard it was bad for Unholy)

Using 245 Sigil (Can upgrade to 264 if it's beneficial enough)

Shadows Edge (Gemmed 2x20Strength Rune of Fallen Crusader)

I was recommended by another raider to swtich the 10 strength 10 crit gems to 10 strength 10 haste, is it beneficial enough to warrant the gold?, Not that I mind, but I'm one of the older players a penny saved is a penny earned... or gold for this matter...But I'm just not getting what I'm doing wrong or maybe I'm just not geared enough for it. I don't really want to go back to frost, I'm just burned out on it.. and I've always really enjoyed using the 2 Handed Axes. Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm using pretty much the standard WoW UI, I use DoTT to track Blood Plague/Frost Fever, I don't have anything to track Desolation yet, Because I can't find one that is that great... Also need something to track Horn of Winter, It's not that I lose track of them I've been keeping them up, So it's not a real issue at this point but it would be nice to not have to look at my buff bar to see if its still up... I use MSBT which I've heard you can configure to do things like track the horn, But after looking into the options and trying to figure it out, I couldn't do it.

So if theres any experienced Unholy guys out there that see something wrong, Please let me know.. and yes, I'm pretty sure my Frost numbers are a little low as well. I'll be the first to say I'm not the greatest player, I'm a clicker 8), and I've really never tried macros and other things before, and I've not the slightest Idea how to begin. I've tried keybinding before but always seem to forget what is what, altho I keybind my Rogue/Hunter just fine, seems my DK gives me a lot of trouble keybinding. Anyway.... Can someone help?

Ripebear1 · 08/08/10, 12:47 PM

Hello guys, I recently started doing a bit of tanking on my Death Knight, and wanted to ask something about it.

I did a search but could not locate anything regarding this.

Is Death and decay a good ability to use when single target tanking? Like on a boss fight with no adds, because I sometimes see Death Knights use it but personally I thought it to be effective only when 3+ mobs. I have 2P T10 (20% Damage increase to DnD) and can obviously pick up the Glyph, probably in place of Death Strike one. I also have tried eyeballing it to see if there's a noticeable difference, but it's very difficult when you factor in RNG, so any replies is appreciated.

� esir · 08/08/10, 1:14 PM

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� esir · 08/08/10, 1:15 PM

hey i have a question , i didnt read any post at all so maybe alot of hunters asked for this before.

i dont have Arp gear at all , so wroth gemming for Arp? or agi is better?

im MM

The World of Warcraft Armory - Aesiryo @ Ragnaros - Profile

ps : i may should go full agi and reroll Sv? or mm is better.

Cesrae · 08/08/10, 5:24 PM

Originally Posted by ShamWow

The MMO-Champion calculator URL seems to have changed and the new MMO-Champion calculator appears to be cataclysm only. I do not know how to translate the talent build links into something that would work on wowhead or armory. Can anyone offer assistance on translating the standard frost 2h spec?

Not sure what you mean. Are you looking for 2hand Tank spec for Live or Cata. Standard Frost Tanking on live is 5/51/5. That gives you 10 points to use elsewhere. Theres 10/51/10, 13/51/7, 15/51/5. If your looking for a 2h Tank Spec for Cata then I advise you to read Cataclysm Death Knight Changes