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Old 09/16/10, 9:19 AM   #18901
Ufthak
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Dragonblight (EU)
Improved Tracking is currently Ranged Haste too.

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Old 09/16/10, 10:19 AM   #18902
Wilderness81
Von Kaiser
 
Goblin Mage
 
Uldaman
I think you will find that most Arcane raiding specs have at least some of the things you mentioned. Specifically, any ICC raiding Arcane mage should take Magic Attunement. The extra 6 yards is way too valuable within ICC (even non-heroic) fights. Having 36 yards allows you to spread out much easier on fights that require that (LDW, PP, Princes, BQL, Saurfang, LK) and allows for less or no movement when target switching (LDW, Saurfang, Princes, PP, Dreamwalker, LK). When you consider heroic modes, movement and spreading out becomes even more necessary on those and additional fights so it becomes even better.

Most Arcane specs would also take Frost Warding over Ice Shards as well. Neither talent is going to be particularly valuable, so its not a big deal either way, but the reasoning for that is that Ice Shards is only useful on trash (you don't cast Blizzard on a boss fight, except for a little on Dreamwalker) while there are several fights that you can make use of wards.

Slow is generally not taken for raiding because its not needed and usually a waste of a GCD. All tanks apply a slowing effect which activates TTW, so its not needed for that, and the times when an Arcane mage needs to slow an add is rare. If the mage primarily runs 10 mans or uses Arcane for 10 mans then it may be useful for fights like Saurfang depending on your raid comp, but there are not many times it would be needed.

Assuming you take all the standard Arcane raiding talents (I'm including Magic Attunement in that), then you would end up with a 55/3/11 spec and have 2 additional points to play with.

Your options are the talents you mentioned: Arc Stability, Student of the Mind, Magic Absorption, or even Slow (if you really need it).

The reason you don't find many people with Arc Stability is because pushback is limited or non-existent on most ICC fights. You'll find it from a few boss abilities (LM's Bonestorm, LDW's frostbolts, LK's infest cast or during transitions on LK, etc) but its infrequent. Also, there is no difference in the protection you'd get from 1 point or 2 points in Arc stability, you would need 3 points to get 100% protection (with a Pally's Imp Conc Aura), or 4 points (with a non-imp Conc Aura). That's just too many points invested to be worth it for most people unless some specific situation like you were part of a 10 man group where you were in charge of orbs during LK's transition and were struggling with it. Also remember that Icy Veins grants you 100% pushback protection while its active, so if there was a particular part of a fight that you were that concerned about you could use IV there.

Technically, of the options available for those last 2 points, Student of the Mind is the only dps talent, so if you were purely considered with min/maxing your dps alone then you'd put them there. However, the gains from SotM are really quite small. For example, take a look at your mage's current spirit. Take 7% of that from 2 points in SotM. Then take that spirit and multiply it by 70% (which is how much of your spirit gets converted to crit rating through 2T9 bonus with the Molten Armor glyph), and finally convert that rating to actual crit %. You're going to have a pretty small number at this point.

Magic Absorption is the talent that you'll find many mages put those last 2 points. While resistances are not always intuitively understood by everyone, the last time I saw the math 2 points in this talent comes out to roughly 10% less magic damage taken. If you consider ICC fights, quite a few of them involve magic damage, much of it unavoidable. Particularly some of the harder fights (your healers will thank you during Infest if you are working on the LK). Its value grows even more in heroic fights where more damage is taken and your healers have a lot to handle. No matter if you are on normal or heroic, if you are working on ICC its likely that your current progression would be made a little easier on the healers by taking Magic Absorption. Its not a direct dps talent, but anything that helps your healers is generally good, and I know its kept me alive when I would have died on several occasions. No mage would take this over a big dps increase, but given the options for those 2 points its an easy choice.

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Old 09/16/10, 10:43 AM   #18903
Knaledge
Glass Joe
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Maiev
That is exactly the kind of thoughtful direction I will benefit from. Thank you so much for taking the time!

One quick request - would you mind linking the 55/3/11 you proposed?

I'll pop back when I have a few more questions but so far, you covered a LOT of bases and the logic seems sound. I really, truly appreciate it.

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Old 09/16/10, 10:52 AM   #18904
Wilderness81
Von Kaiser
 
Goblin Mage
 
Uldaman
This would be the 55/3/11 spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Now, not everyone considers Arcane Barrage a mandatory talent. You'd only use it when you need to move, and I believe that someone on these forums did some math about how it wasn't worth using during movement unless you had 0-2 AB stacks or your AB stacks would fall off during the movement. However, when it comes down to it, I don't really see anything better that you'd be getting for 1 point and it does have its uses.

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Old 09/16/10, 11:02 AM   #18905
Knaledge
Glass Joe
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Maiev
Sweet! Much appreciated

I also forgot to ask - major glyphs = Arc Blast, Arc Missile, Molten Armor? It seems Molten Armor is the "optional". As for minor glyphs... Slow Fall, fire ward, frost ward?

Thanks again!

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Old 09/16/10, 11:48 AM   #18906
Wilderness81
Von Kaiser
 
Goblin Mage
 
Uldaman
Yes to the glyphs. I don't think the MA glyph is really optional, as there aren't any good solutions. A while back a couple people on the WoW forums tested possibly going with the AP glyph while using Mage Armor but while interesting its just not as good as using MA. Those minor glyphs are what I use; the Fire/Frost ward ones are the only minor glyphs that have much of an effect on raiding (albeit a small one), and of course the slow fall one makes life so much simpler.

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Old 09/16/10, 4:08 PM   #18907
DrTorte
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Turalyon
Has anyone done any math on Shadowmourne still being a decent Off Hand during Cataclysm leveling? The damage range is outclassed relatively early on during leveling, and I imagine for your Main Hand, that will be more important, but if I'm not mistaken the proc and gem sockets still end up giving more stats than weapons before level 85.

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Old 09/16/10, 7:21 PM   #18908
Naforce
Piston Honda
 
Human Warlock
 
Frostmane (EU)
I thought I'd share some dps information. Some quick, 2 minute dummy tests on the beta with my lvl 83, 50/50 cata/277 geared warlock gave me the following results using a generic destro, affli and demo spec. Nothing special in either one of the specs. I did not use soulshards, only the "natural" cooldowns such as metamorphosis.

1. Destro 12k*
2. Affli 10k
3. Demo 9k

*Destro allowed me to use bane of havoc, bane of doom as well as curse of elements. I'd expect this to deduce 500-1000 dps of the destro dps, I didn't note how hard everything hit.

Any thoughts on these results? I expected it, due to so many points in the demo tree being wasted, I was expecting a bit more from affliction though. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention to the rotation or something!

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Old 09/17/10, 2:19 AM   #18909
kodekkz
 
kodekz
Undead Mage
 
Frostmourne
Trying to find these addons

i was scrolling thrrew the forums and found this ui.unfortunatly the file isnt available anymore to download. i was wondering if any had a idea of the addons that he has as i only want some of them for certain character



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Old 09/17/10, 7:26 AM   #18910
sabor
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Sargeras
Originally Posted by Grungo View Post
I'm unfamiliar with the key-press version of these, so I'm a little confused as to how that would work. Would the correct key to enter always be the next one that the generator generates? What if you press the button 200 times without ever inputting the code; would it be out of synch with what Blizzard's server thinks the key should be? Or when you press the key does it generate a code based on the serial number and time of button press?

On a lighter note, how long do you think it'll be before we start hearing theories along the lines of, "If the security key I logged in with ends in a 0, and I'm loot master, <rare loot X> drops every time!"
I have already started seeing the "I'm loot master"thing lol.The batteries in the keys have a 7year life expectency to answer the other persons question.

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Old 09/17/10, 7:46 AM   #18911
Blayze
Piston Honda
 
Human Warrior
 
Hellscream (EU)
Is that seven years if you never pressed the button to display the number, seven years with use of the button or seven years even if you kept a number displayed at all times?

Also, do Authenticators have an inbuilt timer to cancel the display automatically? I find myself getting paranoid about whether or not I'm wasting the battery in case something in my pocket hits the button and the display turns on for hours before I notice what happened.

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Old 09/17/10, 10:26 AM   #18912
fcdavis999
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Nordrassil
Agree that we will not really know how the changes will affect our dps until they are live, if any adjustments are made from PTR, but if they stay the same warriors will have no place in raids due to low dps. Most of us will have to spec tank or level other classes while we wait for a fix.

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Old 09/17/10, 11:45 AM   #18913
DIANNE158
Banned
 
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Aerie Peak
Tank Lead Post Organization

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Old 09/17/10, 11:51 AM   #18914
DIANNE158
Banned
 
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Aerie Peak
well, many thanks

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Old 09/17/10, 11:52 AM   #18915
DIANNE158
Banned
 
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updated

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