Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1270

Siylir · 09/27/10, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Pathal

Hit isn't really critical past the special soft-cap. Especially once you have that much ArP, where the EP value of it is massive, dropping ArP rating and other stats for a mediocre one should mathematically be bad.

Originally Posted by Saan

Just to further elaborate off of what Pathal said: With 5/5 precision (I can't see your armory profile to see if you have 5/5, but I couldn't imagine you being a combat rogue and not have 5/5, and since you are going after armor pen, I would assume you to be a combat rogue) you only need 99 hit rating to be capped on specials (66 with a draenei). After that it just counts for spell hit, and armor pen is worth so much EP when you get to the level you have, I couldn't imagine that spell hit would be worth more.

The information that you are giving to TSSGuy about hit is misguided, do you really think that getting spell hit cap wouldn't be worthwhile? When poisons are considered as spells.

Hit [to poison cap, hit is also good after you get exp+arp caps to reduce your crit cap] > Exp [to cap] > Arp/Agil/AP/Haste [depending on gear/spec]

/Poison Cap
* 210 with a Shadow Priest or Moonkin in party and a Draenei with Precision.
* 237 with just a Shadow Priest or Moonkin in party with Precision.
* 315 with Precision only.
* 446 without a Shadow Priest or Moonkin in party and a Draenei. No Precision.

Whitefyst · 09/27/10, 2:33 PM

Accidental duplicate when meant to edit previous post.

adamb10 · 09/27/10, 2:44 PM

delete me.

norp · 09/27/10, 5:35 PM

I was wondering if there was any info from beta users on DW Frost, something similar to what the UH thread posted a couple of days ago.

AzureBedlam · 09/27/10, 5:40 PM

I am currently running with mostly T9 gear, maybe 2 t10 pieces.
I have the [Frost Sub-spec Without Reaping] | 0/17/54 set up, with recommended glyphs.
I have followed the suggested attack listed, but I just can't seem to do near enough DPS.
I get the feeling that I am missing some simple mechanic that is otherwise screwing me up.

Any suggestions?

Holysnapx · 09/27/10, 8:36 PM

I am a 5917 gs ret pally but sometimes a 5700 gs ret pally beats me in dps im wondering maby im doing the wrong rotation

rotation i am using
judgement [light or wiz whatever my guild/raid needs]
consecrate
divine storm
crusader strike
judgement again
rinse and repeat

Crowne · 09/28/10, 2:17 AM

Hi guys, first of all, I am new and appreciate your work here, always been an excited reader.

Ive played around on the ptr and must say our new rotation is a lot more fun than the old button smashing. What do you think will be the best specc at lvl 80 with the new talent trees and should we go for reforging crit into mastery, haste into mastery or will it be the common middle-course? Im asking cause the patch will come in the next 2,3 weeks i guess...

thx

Terryn · 09/28/10, 4:22 AM

I have to say, even after some of these recent fixes, all I can say for damage on beta is... Ehhh.... There are times where I am literally sitting around waiting for something to come off CD for 2+ seconds... and others where there are soo many procs going on, I honestly feel like I am getting overwhelmed. Having a bear druid do 5200+ damage while tanking, where you are doing 5300 isn't encouraging ether... =/ There were single target fights i was barely breaking 5k on in the 333 blues because I couldn't get mastery procs to save my life... And then I'd have ones where i would pull 7k almost... The amount of random in our damage now is just.... Ugh...

Crowne · 09/28/10, 5:50 AM

I guess we have to wait for the final dmg output numbers of all our abilities. Then I rely on Mr. Theorycrafting ,who will tell us, which stats are the best and which rotation is superior based on the cd of cs. (cs/filler or cs/2xfiller and the length of Inquisition)
I don't have beta-access and I can't use Inquisition for testing on the PTR. I usally start with Zealotry and Avenging Wrath, so I get a little of my trinket proc, then I try to gather 3 holypower for zealotry 5secs before my trinket procs again.

Horac · 09/28/10, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Rahdik

EDIT: Seems combat ratings were reduced. 102.446 hit rating = 1%, equipping every piece of justice gear plus the "healer epics" would put us at ~18% hit, 19% for draeneis. If we expect to use T11 pieces though, we'll need to reforge a lot.

The hit aura is gone. In your scenario you are only 1% over the cap and would need to drop 102/103 rating to fix that problem. That means swapping one piece of gear with hit for one piece without hit more than likely. Or at worse, reforging 1 piece of gear with hit to a different stat. I don't see how you can claim that will require a lot of reforging.

I think people are latching onto reforging to much. By design, reforging makes an item worse than it was. You convert 100% of one stat to half as much of another stat. I don't see reforging as "make my gear perfect" I see it as "make this gear that normally sucks into something that's serviceable until I get an upgrade." And even that may not be as big a deal if the developers get all the combat ratings to a point where they are pretty close to each other in value. If Haste is worth 1.2 spell power, and crit is worth 0.9 spell power, you want haste, but you don't hate crit. You wouldnt convert 200 crit rating into 100 haste because you would loose more than you gain.

grayfenix · 09/28/10, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Horac

The hit aura is gone. In your scenario you are only 1% over the cap and would need to drop 102/103 rating to fix that problem. That means swapping one piece of gear with hit for one piece without hit more than likely. Or at worse, reforging 1 piece of gear with hit to a different stat. I don't see how you can claim that will require a lot of reforging.

I think people are latching onto reforging to much. By design, reforging makes an item worse than it was. You convert 100% of one stat to half as much of another stat. I don't see reforging as "make my gear perfect" I see it as "make this gear that normally sucks into something that's serviceable until I get an upgrade." And even that may not be as big a deal if the developers get all the combat ratings to a point where they are pretty close to each other in value. If Haste is worth 1.2 spell power, and crit is worth 0.9 spell power, you want haste, but you don't hate crit. You wouldnt convert 200 crit rating into 100 haste because you would loose more than you gain.

I believe this is incorrect.

Reforging takes 40% of one stat, and converts that into an equal amount of another stat. You dont lose any overall item level.

fhnhf · 09/28/10, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by grayfenix

I believe this is incorrect.
Reforging takes 40% of one stat, and converts that into an equal amount of another stat. You dont lose any overall item level.

Confirmed, overall stats are not lost, if you have 100 crit and reforge it to haste you lose 40 crit and gain 40 haste ending with 60 crit, and 40 haste. At least this is current functionality on ptr.

Horac · 09/28/10, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by fhnhf

Confirmed, overall stats are not lost, if you have 100 crit and reforge it to haste you lose 40 crit and gain 40 haste ending with 60 crit, and 40 haste. At least this is current functionality on ptr.

I was going off the reforging preview and must have missed that they decided to go a different route with it. I'm not sure I like that since it means people will be likely to min/max gear by reforging it.

Still I stand by my other statement. If its 40% of one stat to another then if you have a chest with 265 hit rating you can reforge it to haste and end up with 159 hit and 106 haste rating. You still only need to reforge one item to go from the example gear set's 18% hit to 17%.

Amendment. After looking again at the mmo champion list I see there are no pieces with that much spirit on them. Still it only means you would reforge 2 pieces instead of 1, not very drastic from my point of view (and assumes there are no non spirit mail drops at all from any dungeons or crafted gear that you might use in place of a spirit item).

Diablerotz · 09/28/10, 6:30 PM

Well, i tryed frost and unholy today, 2hand and DW on PTR.

Basicaly, Unholy>Frost 2H>Frost DW .. , at last on the dummie test. (raid buffed the results may be different).
I Could maintain 7900 dps as unholy, and 6900 as frost 2h, and 6700 as frost DW.

Both specs is with a 1 prime glyph missing, Unholy using Glyph of Detath coil and Ghoul, without the scourge strike glyph and i believe the glyphs we will use as frost will be Icy Touch, Obliterate and Frost Strike, i was missing the icy touch glyph.

For frost i went with a priority = Diseases>KM-Obliterate>Frost Strike>Obliterate>-Blood Strike>HB-Rime

Obliterate is hitting for tons with a 2hander .. 20K hits Unbuffed what is fun...

With 2hander spec we have tons of RP to frost strike a LOT... and with Runic empowerement, it feels like a pray for more obliterates... the runes will be very assincronized, but we will have good obliterates..., we dont have the controlated feeling we have with unholy, and i found very hard to keep the time for the diseases, basicaly when was time i used watever i could to cast them..., with runic empowerement, it helps to cast the diseases. I believe we will not have to keep them by outbreak, like unholy can.

well.. Very sorry about my grammar, i have a lot to learn about frost on 4.0 and cata yet

Gibsohnn · 09/28/10, 8:22 PM

Quick question for cata: is it still haste or are we going for crit?