Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1284

matornot · 10/09/10, 1:40 AM

That info was apparently leaked from alpha 3 months ago. Almost 100% of those mechanics/numbers have changed since then.

Pottsy · 10/09/10, 4:05 AM

Ahhhhh. Makes sense now :)

poptya · 10/09/10, 5:26 AM

EDIT: too late on post

HayMakr · 10/09/10, 6:00 AM

is there anything disc priests should be doing to prepare for the upcoming talent changes? (ie: re gemming, chants, glyphs, etc)

thnx

ash23 · 10/09/10, 6:22 AM

I have been a frost Mage since forever. I have arcane for raiding only and my question is as follows. From my understanding in wrath usually frost Magii are usually for aoe (leveling, aoe and general farming) arcane was usually for single target damage and fire for burst damage.

Now from what I read about cataclysm cc will be needed for leveling and instance running. Will poly be enough for that so that I can go arcane / fire? Or will I still have to be frost if fire will handle the aoe better than frost?

Could it be said that in cataclysm, frost=cc, fire=aoe, and arcane single target? What do you guys recommend as primary spec and secondary spec going in cataclysm?

fest20 · 10/09/10, 7:40 AM

Originally Posted by Koalita

Because you already have haste in the equipment piece you are reforging, thus unable to reforge for haste. And as White hit seems better than crit, people reforge crit to hit. Expertise capped, mastery or white hit, usually favors white hit.

Wouldn't mastery be better though? Or is it that bad for Combat? I know on the PTR mastery seemed to fair quite well for Assassination.

Zandranas · 10/09/10, 9:31 AM

Does anyone have a table of the experience required from level to level or are they still changing numbers to much for these numbers to hold any value?

♦ Aislinana · 10/09/10, 9:51 AM

...

yeah I give up

Bris · 10/09/10, 11:25 AM

Your right i wasnt paying attention at all when i was messing with the talent calculator

Thulgar · 10/09/10, 11:38 AM

Based on what i've read on the forums the current cataclysm mage rotation (For Mastery stackers) is to go:

5% Scorch Crit buff > Living bomb > Frostfirebolt X3 > Pyroblast Hotstreaks > Fireball

I've decided that Mastery Stacking is the best way to go as Pyroblasts literally rarely occur on Beta and they're deffinately now more of a ''Bonus'' then a real concrete part of the rotation like on live. My Crit rating with all spirit gear converted into haste or maste etc (I was in BiS fire gear on Live with LK 25 hc down etc) is hovering around 30% for fire (Can't remember if it's buffed or un-buffed i'm afraid!).

But something i was considering was reforging ALL of my items to include, after reaching the hit cap, Matsery and Haste and dropping Crit where i can. Pyroblasts honestly rarely occur. And with Haste now affecting how many ticks occur don't you think the combination of Haste and Mastery will work extremely well in tune with eachother? Combustion is also much more effective for Mastery Stacking mind you also. Plus taking a one point in Impact could help out when they're an extra add around in the room - I doubt there will be too many Patchwork like encounters!

Just wanted to get another mages opinion on this. My Single target dps self buffed is extremely lacking however. Mind you i am considerably under the hit cap and in full premade blues but i'm only achieveing around 7-8k - Is anyone else getting similar numbers?

Amora · 10/09/10, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Keldion

Over the last few days, I have worked on a spreadsheet to illustrate the differences in Drain Life and Shadow Bolt scaling with their respective talents.

Impressive. Thanks for the effort on this.

hungrytrash · 10/09/10, 1:28 PM

@Thulgar I've been sitting at about 9k consistent in premade blues.

The rarity of crits along with the slowness of casts makes everything seem a bit dull to me.

Kfactor · 10/09/10, 1:52 PM

If we are going to be gemming and reforging Mastery from crit and haste, I'm going to have to be the first person to ask: Does mastery have a cap? I'm not in the beta to answer that question.

In light to our mastery talent, I can see how we could easily take advantage of the mastery system and push our chances for Lightning Overload to proc more than Blizzard would desire. Before we go crazy on reforging a lot to mastery, let's figure out where the cap is...if one does happen to exist.

I found this post on TotemSpot on the "Ask an Elemental beta tester" thread:

OK. I went back and did a few more tests last night.. There were so many people on the dummy that I had to travel around to find a boss dummy without outside buffs on it.

What I concluded was that with my gear, 42% crit, 1290 haste my avg dps over 4 sets of 5 minute tests was about 10.4k (no searing because apparently it attacks half the time and half the time it doesn't).

When I reforged all the crit to mastery, ended up with around 35% crit and 29% mastery. The average was about 11.5-7k over the same 4 sets of 5 minute tests.

I went back and reforged every single piece I had even with haste on it, and dropped to around 1059 haste, 35% crit, and 39% mastery. The first test I did was around 11.8k, the rest after didn't get above 10.5k so I'm guessing that's RNG to the extreme. Having less haste I'm sure didn't do much in the way of getting more flame shock ticks triggering more lava surge procs. It also felt like casting was sooo slow that it made the rotation pretty clunky. The average of those tests were around 10k on average, really spiky throughout the test tho.

Then I went back and did another set of tests with the haste on DFO and CTS restored so that brought my haste up to 1189, tests showed I was struggling to hit 10.7k.

So I definitely got better tests with only reforging my crit to mastery. Reforging the haste just seemed like way too much potential for RNG to really be a problem and damage was too spiky for my liking. When it was good RNG, tests were great, and better dps than any other combination, but when RNG wasn't on my side.. it was quite a bit worse by at least 1.5k.

Since there was no difference in DPS between when the person had 1290 haste-35% crit-29% mastery and 1059 haste-35%crit-39% mastery, our mastery cap may be at 30%. On the other hand, it could be possible that since the person has 231 less haste when experimenting with 39% mastery that the 10% more mastery made up for the difference. However, the DPS produced with 1059 haste, 35% crit, and 39% mastery only produced DPS in the range of 11.5k once out of the four times tested. Meanwhile, the 1290 haste, 35% crit, and 29% mastery yielded DPS in the 11.5k all four times in the four times tested. Unless someone else has any other tests to introduce, this person happened to find out at which point does mastery stop contributing to our DPS - which is somewhere between 29% and 39%. Since the best results were yielded at 29%, the best place to take mastery up to and stop at is 30% since anything more taken away from reforging haste to mastery ends up hurting our DPS.

Thulgar · 10/09/10, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by hungrytrash

@Thulgar I've been sitting at about 9k consistent in premade blues.

The rarity of crits along with the slowness of casts makes everything seem a bit dull to me.

Yeh i was figuring i would be around that number with a proper hit cap. But the 2.2-ish second casts are the major down fall of being back at the lower gear specs. This is why i have a hunch that Haste+Mastery is certainly the way to go. I can only assume that our dps and such will begin to get higher in gear as crit ratings will increase, bringing pyroblast ticks into the equation - As well as more hotstreak procs in general.

♦ masanbol · 10/09/10, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by Kfactor

If we are going to be gemming and reforging Mastery from crit and haste, I'm going to have to be the first person to ask: Does mastery have a cap? I'm not in the beta to answer that question.

In light to our mastery talent, I can see how we could easily take advantage of the mastery system and push our chances for Lightning Overload to proc more than Blizzard would desire. Before we go crazy on reforging a lot to mastery, let's figure out where the cap is...if one does happen to exist.

I found this post on TotemSpot on the "Ask an Elemental beta tester" thread:

Since there was no difference in DPS between when the person had 1290 haste-35% crit-29% mastery and 1059 haste-35%crit-39% mastery, our mastery cap may be at 30%. On the other hand, it could be possible that since the person has 231 less haste when experimenting with 39% mastery that the 10% more mastery made up for the difference. However, the DPS produced with 1059 haste, 35% crit, and 39% mastery only produced DPS in the range of 11.5k once out of the four times tested. Meanwhile, the 1290 haste, 35% crit, and 29% mastery yielded DPS in the 11.5k all four times in the four times tested. Unless someone else has any other tests to introduce, this person happened to find out at which point does mastery stop contributing to our DPS - which is somewhere between 29% and 39%. Since the best results were yielded at 29%, the best place to take mastery up to and stop at is 30% since anything more taken away from reforging haste to mastery ends up hurting our DPS.

I don't think that's a reasonable assumption to make without looking at the actual numbers of overloads for each test that person did. Unless you can break down the test into data points more useful than XXk DPS, there are a host of variables that could cause DPS to increase or decrease, including RNG and player mistakes.

Most of our reasoning about stat weights at this point is derived from Bink's calculation on the subject, plus a few specific tests we ran on those stats, rather than "I stood in front of a dummy for four minutes and my DPS went down/up." Those are helpful to a degree, but they are not useful for drawing the kind of conclusions you just made.