Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1318

LukeWalker · 10/15/10, 11:55 AM

is mastrey also effecting evenom or just pure poisen dmg like ip/dp ?

redpilul · 10/15/10, 11:57 AM

Now that you say it, reading it again make me think like you...

Rashas · 10/15/10, 12:00 PM

we have immediate stuns done by 2 rogues and the prot paladin and then holy wrath and another wrath but sometimes even the first wrath does not stun. i was just curious if there was a bug with wrath's stun. ty

♦ Tobin · 10/15/10, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Nithael

And what about pets guys? I'm still using my wolf...

did someone found any significant information about pets dps?

I started using a cat because in 3.3.5 the strength/agility buff was always limited to close range of the melee.

Effective ranges of equivalent abilities in 4.0.1:
Strength of Earth - 40 yards
Battle Shout - 30 yards
Horn of Winter 45 yards
Roar of Courage - 100 yards

Each hunter in your raid should be bringing a different pet, ferocity if possible (hyena, wolf, cat, raptor, etc). You might have to bring a tenacity or cunning pet if you are missing a raid buff.

Scaffa · 10/15/10, 12:09 PM

Has 4.01 changed the position of the War Token? Seems like it would be a phenomenal trinket now.

Destrùctor · 10/15/10, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Scaffa

Has 4.01 changed the position of the War Token? Seems like it would be a phenomenal trinket now.

I have been wondering this myself.

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noesis7 · 10/15/10, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Lucretius

Most of the people that post here on EJ frequently probably understand this but as a reminder to everyone else:

1. Yes Blizzard intended/intends to make subtlety deal more damage.
2. They didn't say anything from what I've seen about more damage for raid pve subtlety.

I understand that the focus of conversation on this forum in the past has been mechanics in nature, but keep in mind the vision Blizzard has for each spec. Subtlety is described as "A dark stalker who leaps from the shadows to ambush <his/her> unsuspecting prey". To me that doesn't sound like sustained PVE DPS.

Its evidenced by HAT only occurring every 4 seconds. I believe this was done to encourage its use in arena, but NOT raids. Further, I also believe that Mastery was intended to be useful and the thought of Executioner was more for short high damage bursts, not sustained dps like poisons will do for assassination. To explain what I mean, think about this....if we are to keep SND, Recuperate, Rupture and possibly Hemorrhage up on a target, that doesn't help [Edit: as effectively as Envenom or Eviscerate] with the Executioner bonuses really and in my mind does not jive with the intent behind the Mastery for this spec. So my thought on this is if the weights for Mastery are not useful in the spec then either a) The spec is broken and they will fix it, or b) The spec was not designed for raiding.

Long story short, Subtlety is intended as an arena PVP spec. They screwed up in WOTLK by not having enough burst damage available in the spec, which is why most of us went 41/5/25. So, don't get your hopes up too high that Subtlety raiding will work. I don't think Blizzard has designed it that way. If its viable now, it probably wont be later.

I think some of you reasoning here is correct but not all of it. I can see where Blizzard would want Subtlety to be the go to PVP spec because of the greater "flavor" talents it holds but sighting HAT as further evidence for that, I feel anyway, is wrong. I would argue that it is proof that they want it to be both PVE and PVP viable. The Devs have stated that they wanted Arena and PVP to be less burst damage and more strategy oriented. HAT when properly implemented accomplishes that fact. When in a smaller group setting such as arenas having CP generation tied to your teammates creates a smaller source pool for them to be created from therefore cutting down on the frequency of Subs harding hitting finishers eliminating burst damage. In a larger group setting like a 10/25 man raid with its increased CP source pool the damage could not only be successfully increased but also sustained making it a viable raid spec as well.

godtom · 10/15/10, 1:08 PM

I'm sorry if this has already been answered, but I heard your latency determines how much haste you should have. Is that true?

Docrev · 10/15/10, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by Lucretius

To explain what I mean, think about this....if we are to keep SND, Recuperate, Rupture and possibly Hemorrhage up on a target, that doesn't help [Edit: as effectively as Envenom or Eviscerate] with the Executioner bonuses really and in my mind does not jive with the intent behind the Mastery for this spec. So my thought on this is if the weights for Mastery are not useful in the spec then either a) The spec is broken and they will fix it, or b) The spec was not designed for raiding.

Long story short, Subtlety is intended as an arena PVP spec. They screwed up in WOTLK by not having enough burst damage available in the spec, which is why most of us went 41/5/25. So, don't get your hopes up too high that Subtlety raiding will work. I don't think Blizzard has designed it that way. If its viable now, it probably wont be later.

They've repeatedly indicated the exact opposite, that all specs should be raid viable. Also, a lot of the talents really don't make that much sense if they're intended for arena only. Enveloping Shadows is too deep in the tree for either Assassination or Combat to get to, but you're not likely to see much AoE in an arena match, not to mention the heavy focus on bleeds, which are sustained damage instead of burst. Finally, the mastery affects damaging finishers, which would include rupture.

Jolem · 10/15/10, 1:30 PM

How much hit should i aim for as a combat rogue? should i aim for full white cap sense when i tried i seemed to do more dps with 544hit then what i did with less

Shan · 10/15/10, 1:41 PM

Are there any warriors raiding with Arms now? How does it compare to Fury?

majut · 10/15/10, 1:42 PM

What should be better now ? H Bryntroll or H Cryptmaker ? i will not have SWM in wotlk so these weapons are the only that i can use in uh. Is nowadays bryntroll proc is such good as it was in 3.3.5 or maybe passive stats from cryptmaker (hit ---->reforge---> haste + hit from ring -----> refore ----> haste) will be better? ATM i have 800haste with 2 reforged trinkets (dbw + scale)

AlphaBob · 10/15/10, 1:48 PM

I have a two piece set of 251 Lightsworn Ret gear (Helm and Gauntlets). I know from running rawc until I could make a four piece set, I was better off using 264 shoulders and legs (Raging Behemoth Shoulderplates and Legplates of Painful Death), but it appeared that once I had enough EoF to purchase the Lightsworn legs and shoulders I would be better off due to the 4-piece buff.

It always seemed odd loosing two sockets, costing two +20 strength gems, plus the difference in base stats between 251 and 264 would be overcome by the 4 piece bonus, but the numbers didn't lie, and I was going to move in that direction, however my world came unglued this past Tuesday when 4.0.1 hit (I have enough JP to purchase another 4 pieces of gear).

I wonder if the situation has changed now due to the 4.0.1 changes?

Failmonster · 10/15/10, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by Sahas

Theck's initial sim which was run from numbers/data gathered in the last two weeks puts JotP as 3rd worst for threat.

Check here for his method and explanation.

ok, i see that. i find it a little weird but i understand why points were put into that tier. RoL and PoJ are both way better then JotP. thank you.

Nbstrong · 10/15/10, 1:58 PM

Originally Posted by Stinkles

In theory, yes but until we get new ilvl gear in cata and agi triples on gear to match the scaling, the effectively 3 arcane shots you get by avoiding initial application of serpent and chimera isn't worth it. It might be during the very beginning and any long term stationary period. If serpent manages to fall off, thats almost another arcane shot focus-wise to reapply + the initial, and as you say above, without it the reapplication effect, the chimera is wasted. The time you spend trying to maximize the results of the above is better spent elsewhere. Add in the extra wild quiver proc's going off and its looking to be a no brainer

I agree with you here and I an anticipating that Blizzard might make changes so that people understand that they should not just completely skip Chimera and Serpent Sting. It's already obvious to us, but the difference isn't large enough that everyone is seeing it and I believe it will be (or should be).

Will edit this soon with a bit more.