so 22,70 (114 exp) should be needed for the cap, how much is that for an orc?

Hi Everyone,

Please understand this post is in regards to our primary PVE role = Single Target DPS. I am not talking about trash mobs or multiple Mobs in Boss fights like the Healy Boss.

I am Prizz, I run on Cenarius in a Guild named Poseidon. We have been raiding ICC/RS for months now. We have killed 12/12 with most Hard Modes for several months. The gear I have obtained as a result has allowed me to be one of the top 5 geared on my server. I am only missing the belt from Putri and the neck from Sindra as well as the LK weapons but that isnt the point I will be making here. The gear I have equipped and the relative stats before 4.0 released has not changed in several months. This means I have had alot of time to observe my DPS for every fight in ICC and RS and have complied a DPS list that shows a constant value that rarely changes (except maybe when we were lacking a key player/class for some reason like a vacation or whatever). Nonetheless I know what I was (past tense) capable of doing on every fight. I have been running heroic 2 piece Tier 10 and Heroic BiS for a long time.

I was expecting changes in Rogue abilities, Mechanics, Talents, EP Values, Item Values, Loss of Armor Penetratioon, New Glyphs, Possibly using different poisons, Gemming, Enchants and Rotation with the addition of Rupture and RS for my combat spec as well as the changes in everyone elses ability and their inherent effect on my capabilities and vice versa.

What I realzied (the obvious) first of all is that it was important to review as much as possible after the release to see what everyone felt was the proper course. Typically EJ has some of the most resourceful people who truly compliment the Rogue and have dedicated time and energy to promoting maximum dps. I knew with so much new data the best course of action for me was to be systematic along a fine line. One thing at a time with the most obvious being first. I wanted to make sure I evolved into the Cata Combat Rogue for which Blizz has now altered us to be.

I started with gems by gemming red with +20 agi, blu with +10 agi/+10hit and yellow with +10 agi/+10 haste. I saw that mongoose was showing a more positive return so i chanted my weapons which are now Heroic Bloodvenom and Heroic Lungbreaker. I got rid of the nightmare tear (since I saw no response to a poster's question on whether it was still viable) and replaced it with +10agi/+10 hit. I no longer use the Heroic Axe as my OH. I also switched from the Heroic Stakethrower to the 264 throwing weapon. Because of an expertise issue (and since I had every Heroic Ring from ICC) I switched Heroic Frostbrood to the Seal of Many Mouths (now useful).

I reviewed the trinket list and since I had every trinket except the STS (Never drops - true story) I equipped HDBW and HDV. When I was done with all of this I found my self short of expertise. Which i easliy fixed by reforging.

I went to the AH and bought all the glyphs I was missing and am using Primes: SS RUP AR Major: BF FOK COS Minor: POISONS SPEED and Safefall.

I rechanted cloak from +23 haste to +22 agi, Gloves from 44 AP to +20 agi, Boots from Icewalker to Cat's. Still wondering if I should change the leg enchant from 75AP/22crit to 55sta/22agi.

The math for the leg enchant says:

Ice Scale = (75 AP) + (22 Crit* 1.62) = 110.64
Frosthide = (22 Agi * 2.88)= 63.36

I apologize if i did that wrong = obvious choice nonetheless is no I will not change it.


For reforging, since most of the gear I have has haste on it I reforged some crit from these items into Expertise (from a haste item which had crit) and reforged the others (with no haste) crit into haste.

These are my current unbuffed stats after all of the changes I made:

2494 Agility
6965 Attack Power
Speed 1.91/1.03
Haste 936 or 28.55%
Hit 390 or 12.68%
Crit Chance 1014 or 51.79%
Expertise 29/26 or 202/200 or 7.25%/6.5% vs LvL 83 (0% on everything less)
Mastery 8 (because Im reading everywhere not to do anything with it atm)

Hit and Expertie Caps listed in the first message for this forum are easily met by my stats. The crit cap has not been fully stated or addressed as a number value (Someone do it) so I am assuming that Im still ok.

I know that the forthcoming spreadsheets will address it.

3/3 Precision 289 646 - thats me !!!
202/200 Expertise
No haste Cap.

2 31 2 Combat.

Test dummy run showed Wound was +300-400 DPS overall in multiple runs.

Now last night I ran our first ICC 25 with Hard modes and some Regular modes since we have started the final approach to Cata we been running a 4 hour gDKP of the entire ICC instance. Regardless of that my DPS is what it is.

I knew what I could do since I have not changed gear in some time. What I found last night was shocking to say the least. Here is the rundown.

SND was always up, Rupture was always up, AR KS nad BF used effectively on CD (BF used only on certain fights), RS rotated in as 4th CP and sometimes 1st, I even tried it at 3rd with a Evis finisher. Poisons were Instant Deadly and we had a few wipes so I tried Wound / Deadly. The point is I was able to try differnt approaches to the same fight. SideNote: I used both Wound and Instant for MH on Bloodqueen when we had some issues and wiped (which is fine because I was able to switch) and found wound was ahead at certain key points in the fight. Anyways here is what I found after all of the above was completed for the New Prizz:

When I mention "Burst is gone" in the following list this is what I mean = I found that I didnt burst up like I did before 4.0 having first approached the Boss when the fight started with the same intensity Post 4.0 using my speacials

like KS, AR, BR etc.


Lord Marrowgar Hard Mode:
Before 4.0 - Averaged 17.5 - 18.5 with a 23-24k starter due to burst and etc.
After 4.0 - Averaged 13.2 - 14.4 with a gradual starter from 8k climbing, Burst is gone

Lady Death Regular: (we bring undergeard so we pass on HM):

Before 4.0 - (I stayed on her the whole fight in PH1 to remove mana and bridge the gap into PH2 with the evasion and tricks aggro transfer - god willing the glitch didnt occur the aggro transferred)

I did 15 to 17 during PH1 typically in Normal (since most of the debuffs were on adds atm) 13-14 for the remainder usually ending up with 12.8 to 13.5 after all the running around, running away, interupting.

Last night was a horrid 11.5 in PH 1 and 10.2 finish and I even tried different approaches to rotation RS first with SS to evis finish etc.

Gunship - We win

Saurfang HM:

Before 4.0 - Averaged 17.5 to 18.7 with a 20 to 21k starter sometimes 22 due to burst ending with 16.8 to 17.9
After 4.0 - Averaged 12.5 to 13.4 with a gradual starter climbing from 8.5 to 9k, Burst is gone.

Rotface HM:

Before 4.0 - Avg 17.5 to 18 - 21 to 22k burst
After 4.0 - Avg 11.5 to 12.3 Burst is gone.

Festergut HM:

Before 4.0 - Avg 16.5 to 17.3 - 21 to 22k Burst
After 4.0 - Avg 10.5 to 11.8 Burst is gone.

Putricide (regular):
Before 4.0 - Avg 14.5 to 15.5 - 18-20k Burst
After 4.0 - Avg 9.5 to 10.8 Burst is gone

Princes HM:

Before 4.0 - Avg 13.4 to 14.4 - 18 to 19 Burst - Running Fight.. Suxors.
After 4.0 - Avg 11.2 to 11.9 (This fight seemed above average compared to the rest even tho more running around)

BloodQueen HM:

Before 4.0 - (They dont bite me first because my dps is already high enough) Although My highest on BOSS while bit first was 29.2 Avg Pre 4.0. The Avg. for me was 17.5 to 18.5 before bite and up to 19.8 to 20.1 after bitten (depending when I actually was bitten is also a factor). Sometimes I would be 16 to 17 because of mitigating Pact (running out).

After 4.0 (I was very upset about this one) - 12.2 to 12.9 with a rise to 15.5 after bit (I am not liking Blizz atm)

After all that (Enough on fight stats) I was not very happy with my DPS. I thought perhaps I had gemmed, chanted, reforged incorrectly or that my rotation was improperly alligned but I was always there in the fix using SND, Rupture cycles timed with SS RS Evis.. using AR KS BF. I would say using the new rotation was a small curve but I got it down. My stats indicate I have more than I did before in terms of AP and haste so I should be that much more higher post 4.0. Noone is perfect but noone is also going to do something wrong enough to make it look like they cant play their class after accomplishing the DPS levels they did before. It boils down to a cohesive reduction in capabilities by the programmers at blizz and I believe it falls back on the removal of armor penetration and the lack of balance that was returned when they redesigned the Combat Rogue after the fact. They could have easily balanced us but did not. It was a choice. Fury warriors on the other hand and Warlocks have been majorly buffed from what I saw last night, One of our Primary Fury Warrior's who was bitten first on BQL HM did 35k+ .. yep true story.

Based on the numbers above for Prizz:

Lord Marrogarr: I did 23.3% less damage Post 4.0
Lady: I did 32.2% less damage Post 4.0
Saurfang: I did 28.5% less damage Post 4.0
Rotface: I did 32.9% less damage Post 4.0
Fester: I did 34.0% less damage Post 4.0
Putri: I did 32.3% less damage Post 4.0
Princes: I did 16.9% less damage Post 4.0
BloodQueen I did 28.6% less damage Post 4.0

I basically call this a Nerf. (Remember I am basing my data on the fact my gear hasnt changed in months and I Know MYSELF !)

Remember this is the first week, everyone is figuring things out, things will change when Cata comes and I hope it will be more positive than this.

If anyone sees anything I can do the to improve a stat somewhere, please feel free. Flaming me for some personal reason for anything else will be ignored.

This is also 1 Raid Post 4.0 compared to Many Pre 4.0.

Prizz da Rogue ~!

I know this is not what the spreedsheet say but still worth mention.

I did a gDKP run to day and I dont have any off the gear you have, none the less I did 12,5k, with out any problems, the thing I do is skip Rupture, its not worth it. i changed my glyph to evis.

Must be said we did it on normal but still.

just to give my rotation to its.
2xSS RvS 1-2xSS Evis.

and to honest burst is not gone, use FoK while in your KS.

At what point do I stop geming strenght and start geming crit?
arms warrior
5826 gs