Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1345

Ruefus · 10/19/10, 4:58 PM

3 questions about Destruction:

1) are we supposed to use shadowflame only in certain situations, like if we have to be in melee range or on the run, or are supposed to to stand in melee range the whole fight so we can use it every time it is off cooldown.

2) should we cast Soulfire if Improved Soulfire is about to run out and soulburn is on cooldown and no instant soulfire proc atm.

3) a few days ago when everyone was saying that haste was best, I reforged and gemmed for haste. I got from 906 up to 1406, but sacrificed Intellect and Master. Should I regem/reforge or leave it since I got my haste up to 1406. On LK last night I was hitting 20k in phase 1.

My stats are
443 hit
1406 haste
1747 Intellect

netsach · 10/19/10, 5:13 PM

Originally Posted by Yinchie

Probably for PVP reasons...

I won't speak my mind here, but i guess you know what i'd say...

Originally Posted by Ruefus

1) are we supposed to use shadowflame only in certain situations, like if we have to be in melee range or on the run, or are supposed to to stand in melee range the whole fight so we can use it every time it is off cooldown.

If you happen to be able to stay in range (which is quite huge, by the way) to use the shadowflame, then do it. It's a non-negligible part of your dps according to the simulation. BUT move from range to melee to cast it though, you'd be losing time and dps. Rule of thumb : don't try to "force" it in, as someone already said.

Originally Posted by Ruefus

2) should we cast Soulfire if Improved Soulfire is about to run out and soulburn is on cooldown and no instant soulfire proc atm.

The poster 2 posts above yours just answered this question : "actions += /soul_fire,health_percentage >= 80, if=cooldown.improved_soul_fire.remains <= cast_time" means exactly that : cast soulfire if the proc is about to expire.

Originally Posted by Ruefus

3) a few days ago when everyone was saying that haste was best, I reforged and gemmed for haste. I got from 906 up to 1406, but sacrificed Intellect and Master. Should I regem/reforge or leave it since I got my haste up to 1406. On LK last night I was hitting 20k in phase 1. My stats are 443 hit 1406 haste 1747 Intellect

Correct me if i'm wrong, but OP stats scaling for BiS items is currently : Hit=5.9801 > Int=4.3956 > Mastery=3.1509 > Haste=3.1063 > SP=3.0227 > Crit=2.4842. So it seems you gimped your best stat (3 pts in hit missing) and your second and third best stats to get more of the fourth...

Antiquarian · 10/19/10, 5:46 PM

I can also confirm zero dodges at 172 Expertise rating in Heroic ICC25. Looks like it's not just the heroic training dummy.

urakdarkhorn · 10/19/10, 5:56 PM

Here are some additional data from the tests that I found interesting. (I am using Heroic Bryntroll for my MH and Heroic Cryptmaker for my OH.)

Number of melee strikes (hits+crits+glancing)
Control (293 dodge): 482
293 Haste: 518
293 Crit: 486
293 Mastery: 482
The additional 6.38% crit yielded 4 additional white hits due to increased Flurry uptime. This 0.83% increase nets 67.6 additional rage over the ten minute period. The additional 8.94% haste gave 36 more hits. A 7.47% increase and 608.4 more rage. This puts Haste as being nine times better for additional rage generating than crit.

Number of Bloodthirst strikes (hits+crits)
Control (293 dodge): 182
293 Haste: 181
293 Crit: 181
293 Mastery: 181
Good consistency in the number of Bloodthirts.

Number of Raging Blow Strikes (hits+crits) I divided total by two as each use of the ability does two strikes.
Control (293 dodge): 77
293 Haste: 78
293 Crit: 78
293 Mastery: 79
Again the consistency is pretty good considering the use of this ability is conditional upon an enrage effect. The controll set wound up with an extra Bloodthirst but one less Raging Blow. Mastery is the only test that received more special attacks than the other tests and only by one.

Drain Life damage (and number of procs) from Heroic Bryntroll
Control (293 dodge): 181881 (46)
293 Haste: 188623 (45)
293 Crit: 195330 (48)
293 Mastery: 279128 (70)
I had expected there to be more damage from this source in the haste test due to more melee hits and because the proc can not crit. What is most surprising is the sheer number of procs as well as the damage in the mastery test. I'm not sure what caused there to be 50% more procs but I intend to do more testing. This proc alone contributed 465.21 dps (and hps) It seems prudent to tally the damage output without this proc effect.

Total damage output without Drain Life
Control (293 dodge): 3451562
293 Haste: 3503763 (+1.51%)
293 Crit: 3576921 (+3.63%)
293 Mastery: 3643041 (+5.55%)
Even without the Bryntroll proc Mastery still edges out haste and crit. Now to run tests factoring in rage and Heroic Strike.

MordainThade · 10/19/10, 6:03 PM

Originally Posted by matornot

Edit: Faight posted a lot of this info while I was typing this post. Note to self: don't take a break to cook food while typing a long post

There is not an optimal amount of haste so much as particular thresholds for Demo locks to avoid. The first, as Warlocomotif mentioned, is at 10% haste. If you have 9.99% haste, your Immolate will last 13.64 sec, which can make it difficult or impossible to refresh with HoG. This first threshold is the most dangerous because the subsequent thresholds offer lower variance between Immolate's base duration (15s) and it's actual duration. Here is a list of the thresholds to avoid as Demo locks. Note that you are safe if your haste is equal to or greater than one of these thresholds, but you should try to gain (or possibly lose) haste if your haste is slightly lower than any of these numbers:

Without 5% Haste Buff (No Shammy, Moonkin, or Shadow Priest)

Haste Rating	Haste from Gear
328	10%
984	30%
1640	50%

With 5% Haste Buff (Shammy, Moonkin, and/or Shadow Priest)

Haste Rating	Haste from Gear
157	4.77%
781	23.81%
1406	42.86%

For Destro there is no danger in having any particular amount of haste, but you do get a dps boost for each of these thresholds that you meet, both from Conflag damage and from Immo uptime. Note that the thresholds are lowered when Improved Soul Fire is active. Fun Fact: The amount of haste rating required to meet the fourth threshold with 5% haste buff and Improved Soul Fire active is 1337. (I'm completely serious!)

Thanks for this info, it was exactly what I was looking for. I was wondering, would you be able to do the next level of calculation? I know that reaching the next "break point" with no Wrath of Air is impossible on current gear (at least, while keeping Hit cap), but I'm curious about the 4th "demo danger zone" number with Wrath of Air active, as it seems like it could be potentially attainable.

Thanks in advance!

thorngrip · 10/19/10, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by Deathwing

Defyn,

Why are you gearing for hit/exp cap? Is this just a playstyle choice, or does something change between 80 and 85 that makes hit/exp much more valuable to dps?

Just a quick note - the value of hit/exp should be slightly higher now in 4.01 / Beta due to the removal of Primal Precision (which refunded 40% of the energy cost of failed finishers). No idea if it's worth reforging or even gemming for, however.

ominae · 10/19/10, 6:34 PM

So with the changes in ep regarding white hit and mastery, what type of hit cap should we be aiming for before reforging for mastery as a mut rogue? We need to hit the spell cap, obviously, but above that should we just reforge mastery?

mastiferwoo · 10/19/10, 6:52 PM

Did the endbosses in ICC 25 yesterday with 172 expertise, no dodges.'
Got a few wierd parry's but im thinking it was mostly due to positioning.

Explicity · 10/19/10, 6:55 PM

I always thought stamina was an important stat for a lock, and this is reflected in my placement of Timeless Dreadstones in my blue slots. You seem to be advocating using Veiled Dreadstones, however. Replacing my Dreadstones will give me 60 more int but 60 less stam. How will that affect my play?

Jaron · 10/19/10, 7:14 PM

You only need to be spell hit capped, any hit rating after that is better spent on Mastery.

Riverwindd · 10/19/10, 7:15 PM

According to Mmo-champion:
"Warlock
Affliction

* Seed of Corruption now deals 567 to 660 to all enemies within 15 yards, down from 1186 to 1379."

Am I wrong or affi is being over-nerfed? Why would I stay affi now ?My guild is forcing me to use destro as it's way more dps, other than insane gameplay as affiction I don't see a reason to stay affi anymore... (sad face)

jaminguy · 10/19/10, 7:34 PM

Take this with a grain of salt, but I've found that switching to Heroic Rib Spreader from Heroic Heartpierce for the < 35% backstabbing is giving me quite a big increase in dps. I don't have log parses for this unfortunately...

centure · 10/19/10, 7:39 PM

for all 3 spects for mages, what should my haste be at and crit.

clavarnway · 10/19/10, 7:49 PM

edit:removed

Taralla · 10/19/10, 7:55 PM

I currently play a resto druid main. but i just finished leveling a hunter to 80 about 3 weeks before 4.0. before LaL had a internal cooldown (cant remember right off hand). well yall have been talking about using explosive trap or immo trap with trap launcher to proc LaL.

i looked at this talked with my guild blah blah. someone that is a bit smarter than me needs to take over this research. dealing with trap launcher ice trap/immo exlosive trap instead of black arrow.

if immo or explosive trap is lower dps than black arrow (should be this way IMO) then why not use ice trap to proc LaL? would the 10 focus for the trap launcher be worth it for the best proc SV hunters have. i dont have the ability to test via spread sheets and what not.

If i have a valid question can someone do this research, may be a break through for SV hunters.

Also i have noticed that with the spec i have on my hunter that LaL procs with black arrow and the traps, (seems to be on a differant internal CD) can someone test this also? or point me in the right direction?