Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1357

wilegenuis · 10/22/10, 5:39 AM

Must say I have no idea what is the point of creating a spreadsheet for 4.0.1 at this point of time. Back at the old 3.X times it was clear what is the order and weight of the stat ArP, AP, Agl, Crit, Haste. As of 4.0.1 we are left with less attributes and no one can still tell the weight of each one.
What will the spreadsheet can tell at this point of time? What should we select? Haste, Crit, Mastery? Other than the fact that Agl is the best stat nothing else was agreed upon

Findest · 10/22/10, 5:41 AM

Why we can`t use [ZZOLD Design: Ember Skyflare Diamond] that give us +21 INT as a meta?

Raykee · 10/22/10, 6:01 AM

Originally Posted by Findest

Why we can`t use [ZZOLD Design: Ember Skyflare Diamond] that give us +21 INT as a meta?

[Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] gives more then 500 dps as the startpost explained. Whereas [ZZOLD Design: Ember Skyflare Diamond] only gives a 90 dps increase. The 2% max mana is not really that good either

Nooska · 10/22/10, 6:51 AM

Originally Posted by wilegenuis

Must say I have no idea what is the point of creating a spreadsheet for 4.0.1 at this point of time. Back at the old 3.X times it was clear what is the order and weight of the stat ArP, AP, Agl, Crit, Haste. As of 4.0.1 we are left with less attributes and no one can still tell the weight of each one.
What will the spreadsheet can tell at this point of time? What should we select? Haste, Crit, Mastery? Other than the fact that Agl is the best stat nothing else was agreed upon

It seems you are operating under the assumption that statweights are typed into the spreadsheet, while in actuality the spreadsheet calculates the stat weights from the actual contribution to overall dps, dependant on the very complex interactions of everything from focus regen to focus expenditure. I do agree that making a spreadsheet for 4.0.1 is not a priority (unless Shandara really has nothing better to do) as we know 4.0.1 is coming to a close roughly the 23rd (or 30th) of november as blizz has said they want 4.0.3 to hit 1-2 weeks before cata, and as soon as we hit decmber 7th its all about 85.

enqi · 10/22/10, 7:05 AM

Originally Posted by Dominoris

Here are my thoughts on the orbs.

1 - Orb generation is random. We can not chose when we get anothre one like a rogue's combo points or a paladin's holy power. They come or not with the RNG
2 - The added damage per orb is static. Each orb adds the same amount of damage. There is no scaling involved here.
3 - Even without the orbs, Mind Blast is a strong contender and causes more damage for its cast time than Mind Flay so should be worked in when it is up.

Since each orb adds the same amount of damage, you can separate them out. Think of them as little damage bombs you get randomly that can only be applied with a MB. But there can only be 3 orbs up at one time, max. If you have 3 up you can not generate any more orbs. Because of this, I use MB any time it is up to clear my orbs and make room for more. When you hit 3 orbs and the hot button flashes, that is a warning, not a green light meaning ready to cast. It means you could be accruing more orbs but there is no room.

Put another way, say over length of time, you generate 12 orbs total. That's 4 Mind Blast at 3 orbs each. Or 6 Mind Blast at 2 orbs each. The total damage done by the orbs does not change in either case. If a Mind Blast does 5000 damage, each orb will do 34% of that or 1700 damage each for 20.4K total damage from 12 orbs. Meanwhile, the first choice of all 3 orb Mind Blast nets 20K from the spells, but the second scenario yields 30K damage.

So .. bottom line, don't wait for 3 orbs. Cast Mind Blast when it is up and let the orbs come with the RNG. Getting in more MB casts > fewer MB at max orbs.

Mind Flay is greater DPS than MB no matter what your metaphoric explanation says.

Shadowfiend is currently doing about 8-15% of our dps, if you can't comprehend that 3 orbs is needed to make a MB more worthy than a MF then jesus christ.

Shadowfiend cooldown is 180 seconds, everytime you crit with your mindflay you pull 10 seconds off it. Any decently geared shadowpriest should have close to 50% crit which means every mindflay apart from averaging 15k dps (Mind Blast is better for my priest IF I crit with 3 orbs, worse if I don't.) you'll also in addition reset your entire shadowfiend cooldown over the course of 10 mind flays if you would average the model of "one crit one hit" (50% crit) that means that on top of these 15k mindflays you can split 6000 DPS (thats what an average fiend for me does) down by 17 seconds for an average for 352 dps added into mindflay (still better than a non-crit 3x Mind Blast).

Why do you bother casting mind blast then?
Because tecnicly every second mind blast I cast on 3x Orbs will do close to double the amount of dps of my Mind Flay, if you break it down it's going to be a bare minimum dps gain casting on 3x, and a waste of time casting on <2x.

This is going to change when cata comes out and our t10 gear goes to sht but until then, read my following post if you want to maximize your dps.

Findest · 10/22/10, 7:21 AM

Originally Posted by Raykee

[Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] gives more then 500 dps as the startpost explained. Whereas [ZZOLD Design: Ember Skyflare Diamond] only gives a 90 dps increase. The 2% max mana is not really that good either

21 INT =90dps > CRIT 21=40 dps correct?
remains 3% Inceased Crit Damage. It gives more than 460 dps?

certainly 2 % mana, really it is not necessary

baklava · 10/22/10, 9:09 AM

Originally Posted by Midnight

I don´t think reforging by itself will be very difficult to implement. Basically it´s not so different from hand adjusting stats within certain constraints. What will be difficult if not impossible to do is optimizing for it automatically. As far as I can tell optimizing gems used to be tricky alreadyl, reforging is taking that to a new level.

Firstly, we can do the optimization manually. It isnt a must have for spreadsheet! But spreadsheet is a must have right now.

Moreover, focus is really tricky too for rotation right now, how much focus u will gain, or you will have enough focus to cast Chimera shot or any other shot etc will be another issue.

baklava · 10/22/10, 9:42 AM

I believe the beginning of the rotation should be like;

Under Raid Fire Rotation;
SrS -> Rapid Fire -> CS -> 3xAS -> 2xSS -> 3xAS -> 2xSS -> CS -> Readiness -> Rapid Fire -> CS -> 3xAS -> 2xSS -> 3xAS -> 2xSS -> CS

Otherwise; fill your focus until 90 with steady shot spam (like 4 times) then 2xAS, 2xSS (make your focus stand close to 50 in general) while SrS effect was lasting, use CS, then continue fill your Focus to 90 and the same rotation... Personally I use MSBT to check out and make the sound for MMM procs, when I have 4xMMM, I just use SS to make it proc if focus is not full.

I reached 20k dps with this at Festergut with my not best possible gear.

The only problem with dps and focus is;

- Tranq Shot requires 35 focus -.- which is important for LK HC.
- While moving, it is really hard to follow focus. (need a good addon for this)
- I need an addon (which works for 4.0.1 perfectly) to warn me about Serpent Sting duration on target effectively!
- While moving, spamming arcane shot while I have 0 focus is annoying. That's why you should save 40-50 focus always.

In conclusion, i've really hated focus...

bele82 · 10/22/10, 9:54 AM

Im wondering after applying 5 stacks of execute (20% of boss) and get the haste buff if its ok to go back to the normal dps cyrcle instead of spamming execute still.

Drachii · 10/22/10, 10:01 AM

Infraction or no infraction, me love you long time for that <3 S'exactly what I was after.

soullreaper · 10/22/10, 10:10 AM

consideringering the big improvement in haste for dk's, shud i replace mark of supremacy with herkuml war token if im hit capped?
i olso use whispering fanged skull

Pielo · 10/22/10, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Xodiv

Why would you when execute is your hardest hitting attack and has no cooldown?

agreed. Below 20% your spamming Execute (with the occasional HS if your rage is high)

CALMSTORM · 10/22/10, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by baklava

Firstly, we can do the optimization manually. It isnt a must have for spreadsheet! But spreadsheet is a must have right now.

Moreover, focus is really tricky too for rotation right now, how much focus u will gain, or you will have enough focus to cast Chimera shot or any other shot etc will be another issue.

Completely agree. As you know very good is the enemy of good. Besides a spreadsheet would be really great at this moment definitely without the need of taking the burden of making gemming / enchanting / reforging optimisation automated. Afterall still many ppl tried / managed to handtune their gear as well.

Cronus · 10/22/10, 10:40 AM

One thing i noticed yesterday... with 4.0.1 blizzard built in this neat feature - if a ability like exorcism or slam becomes a instant cast, the ability starts to glow:

Yet this is not the case for enhancement shamans, when maelstrom weapon reaches 5 stacks.
Hm... could be intentioned though, since half of our bar would lit up (all the healing spells and lightning casts). Would be nice to have anyway...

Dvaliyn · 10/22/10, 11:04 AM

I would really like to know why almost every warrior prefers the 3/31/2 build instead of speccing 3/3 incite.
Is it just because of the higher cleave dmg with 3/3 in war academy? I am pretty sure that single target the 3/3 incite build is ahead.