Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1365

Molia · 10/26/10, 9:49 PM

Awesome, I didn't know the link, thank you.

Brocklanders · 10/26/10, 10:06 PM

I have been testing out my "abilities" since the patch went live (4.01) on the Dummys
I keep hearing about 13k dummy testing and 17k sim results and I can't figure out what I am doing wrong.
I can almost guarantee im not optimal with my priorities but Im darn sure trying to be.
My DPS (as far as recount in concerned) on a dummy, is never better that 8400 and averages around 7600 in ebon.
I know, Dummy testing is not prudent for this forum, But allot of us are probably doing dummy testing to get our spec "together" so to speak.
I tried to link a screen shot (to no avail) of a starting rotation to illustrate my lack of understanding of how anyone else is getting such incredibly high numbers on Obliterates/Frost Strikes as a DW Frost DK.
So If I may type it in I might possibly be able to display my frustration and desire for some clarity.

First I will say that I have Item Level (char sheet) 268, 19.15 mastery, 28/28 expertise ( of which in my gear I really cant get rid of) 21.39 Crit of which I've dumped allot of into Mastery, Hit 10.02% (of which, again I cannot dump anymore) Haste 20.86% AP 5380. Not sure what stats are important for this query.
Here it goes, I have been going crazy trying to figure out why my recount is showing such low numbers for my DPS on testing. Of course I understand that dummy testing is not accurate but I'm a far cry off of 13k. But let me just tell you seeeing as I can't show you what my numbers look like.
What I did was throw HB,PS,OB on a Boss Dummy (several times) to try and illustrate the kind of damage recount is showing, as well as to show what the combat logs are showing.
As I mentioned, I threw out Three (Yellow) attacks. Here is how the combat log reports those three attacks:

Dirthvader's Howling Blast hits Heroic Training Dummy for 5395 Frost
Dirthvader's Plague Strike Hits Heroic Training Dummy for 1066 Physical
Dirthvader's Razor Frost hits Heroic Traing Dummy for 21 Frost
Dirthvader's Plague Strike hits Heroic Training Dummy for 1680 Physical
Dirthvader's Razor Frost hits Heroic Training Dummy for 16 Frost
Dirthvader's Obliterate hits Heroic Training Dummy for 3606 Physical
Dirthvader's Razor Frost hits Heroic Training Dummy for 23 Frost
Dirthvader's Obliterate hits Heroic Training Dummy for 4937 Physical
Dirthvader's Razor Frost hitd Heroic Training Dummy for 15 Frost
Dirthvader's Razor Frost hits Heroic Training Dummy for 21 Frost

Recount:
ability Count Damage
Obliterate 2 8543
Howling Blast 1 5395
Melee 7 5358
Plague Strike 2 2746
Blood Plague (DOT) 3 2344
Frost Fever (DOT) 3 2041
Razor Frost 5 96

I have done this "Obliterate test" several times tonight to be sure the numbers are relatively the same, and they are.
I know that w/o full raid buffs, PoF, Flask ER, prepot hast ect, my numbers will be considerably lower for this testing (I'd guess at least Double the damage) but Im seeing MH Obliterates in this forum hitting for 18,000-21,000. As Obliterate, In my opinion is the primary ability in our aresenal I focused on that, I purposely did not include Critical hits as I think MH reg hits would suffice for my question. Why is it that others are seeing 4X higher damage? I am not new to the class, I have raided all of WOLK and have done pretty well compared to my guildies over that time, and now I feel like I can't carry their back packs. Unless of course we are talking about trash mobs, then I outdo everyone.

gannonjf · 10/27/10, 3:15 AM

You guys mind taking this addon to it's own thread so we can keep this one relavent?

Lithios · 10/27/10, 7:32 AM

Still wondering if Double Verdict is even viable for Assassination spec. I know for awhile there were crit cap issues with it but my crit has drastically dropped after reforging. Is regular DV better than HWT is what im really asking. Ive seen the crude estimates on the first page.

Vistana · 10/27/10, 8:32 AM

Sorry to derail the thread for 2 moments, but I got Heroic Black Bruise AND Heroic Last Word this week, so I'll run some tests compared to my double HC Cryptmaker for those interested (including myself) about the viability of these two weapons as SMF.

Orusz · 10/27/10, 8:55 AM

so, on patch 4.0.1 mongoose > berseking? And pvp spec, witch enchant?
about the poisons, instant and deadly at pve, and pvp? after wound poisons nerf, still using it?
and about critical strike, i'm assassin pve, is better reforge all critical>haste? and on pvp, mastery = unnecessary?

naknekm · 10/27/10, 9:59 AM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

Since there seems to be some confusion about Mutilate stat priorities, let me take a minute to clear it up. The EP values in the first post are based on BIS gear, already socketed and reforged in accordance to those stat weights. Hence, while it's true that reforging to mastery raises the relative value of hit (and so on) - we've already *done* that. Reforging haste and then mastery over hit does lower the value of mastery and raise the value of hit - but even after their values converge in that fashion, mastery is *still* ahead. Before reforging to mastery, it was *further* ahead.

Hence, in terms of reforging priority, the answer will basically always be spell hit cap > expertise cap > haste > mastery > white hit. The end. There is very little ambiguity here. Socketing is always Delicate/Deft/Glinting, matching socket colors. While I'm not going to say its impossible to stack stats in such a away that the order changes, I will say that it is really pretty rare. 99% of you don't need to worry about how the stats interact or how much of what stat you have - if you make the spell hit and expertise caps, and then reforge haste and mastery, you really can't go too far wrong.

Does this also apply to combat?

Thank you.

james · 10/27/10, 10:21 AM

Randomly throwing this theory/debate out there.

I've always felt that Blizzard have kept the value of PWS and the scaling below comparable heals (i.e. Swiftmend) because I believe Blizzard value absorbs higher than the direct heals. Probably obvious why.

1. Unaffected by Mortal Strike/Wound effects (i.e. PVP)
2. Doesn't overheal.

In an expansion where it's possible Mortal Strike will be reduced to just 10%, and where healthpools and mana concerns may well reduce the semi-common 50-60% tank overheal we see today, do you feel that PWS scaling may need to be re-evaluated. If only for targets with Grace.

Jackspeare · 10/27/10, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by _sl0t_

That's a really valid point.
After reading Theck's threat analysis, I switched to a dps weapon and respeced for full WoG and the results amazed me.
I was doing 10k tps just using the 9C9 rotation with WoG in blood princes and blood queen in ICC 25 heroic.
I was OT in BQ fight, so threat wasn't an issue for me and I just focused on healing the raid with my WoG doing 10k heals.
In blood princes I tanked Taldaram, so I started with AW and used HoW as filler whenever it was available. My threat lead was high enough to let me use WoG the whole fight, only switching to ShoR to help dps when Taldaram had the blood.

Unless Wrathblood predictions become true and Vengeance gets nerfed, I don't think we will have to worry about the WoG threat loss, only about the dps loss (which is huge).

This is very interesting, with all of the threat issues post 4.0.1.
So basically, you're saying i could go with the normal rotation and just replace Sotr with WoG, and do more threat ? is a DPS weapon a must? is a WoG build a must ?

And just so i'm sure, what exactly is the 9c9 rotation?
Despite everything i'm trying, even tanking with a dps weapon, my raid is constantly out-aggroing me, which is annoying to say the least. there must be a way to get back to the old threat we paladins used to push out there.

Thanks for the help!

Valkryie · 10/27/10, 11:12 AM

With the 4.0 changes, has Ret Paladin trinket priority changed?

Previous list for 3.3 was: Tiny Abomination in a Jar(Heroic)>Tiny Abomination in a Jar>Sharpened Twilight Scale (heroic)>Death's Choice (heroic)>Whispering Fanged Skull (heroic)>Death's Choice>Sharpened Twilight Scale>Whispering Fanged Skull>Herkuml War Token>Deathbringer's Will(heroic)>Deathbringer's Will>DMC:Greatness (Strength)>Needle-Encrusted Scorpion>Banner of Victory

Excalin · 10/27/10, 11:22 AM

I have started using this mentality to my "rotation" or lack there of.

Arcane Arcane Arcane to try to give a few shots to proc anything I can before applying my sting
-Note usually moving into position and MDing tank while I fire these first few shots off.

Sting Macro
-Pet 10%AP CD
-Sting

SS Boss Macro x2
-Rf
-Eng Haste
-SS

Then I start my dump and regen phase
-Chim shot as late as I can without losing Sting
-hit the aim shot when it procs
-SSx2-4 depending on focus and required chim shot
-readiness when I need to pop the next RF
*when haste effects are up for short periods of time or when it is close to running out in the case of Bloodlust you should SS more between dumps (but never capping) to maximize dps

My reasons for later chim shots and not on the CD
-@10 seconds over a 5 minute fight you get 30 Chim shots
-@15 seconds(ideal not practical) over a 5 minute fight you get 20 chim and 20 Arcane shots with the same amount of focus
*10 more shots to proc your mastery on
*Your bleed dot that can proc off chim is likely to be overwritten pretty quickly by your weaker SS
- sting last 15 seconds chim shot CD is 10 seconds....add in a second or 2 of travel time before refresh proc occurs and you have 5-7 seconds from the time Chim CDs till sting falls off
- Chim shot is not 2x damage of arcane but is 2x the cost. (Arcane is more damage per a point of focus).

Summary:

-Don't cap Focus....dont have any left when boss dies
-SS in pairs (if you are on your last SS and its about to lose the haste only chim shot should take priority)
-keep Sting up but try to cut it to the last second on refreshing (everyone's level of comfort is different and fights are dynamic)
-KS is worth waiting for
-Aim shot first SS stop and cast...second SS wait and cast
- There is nothing wrong with 4 SS in a row....especially when your Eng haste procs...just dont cap
-Trigger control....if your not sure there will be enough focus for another arcane shot...dont sit there pounding the key hoping....simply go back to SSx2

I have a GS of 5868
Ilvl 251 (saving for 264 PvP bow)
4 pc t4 (I could replace 2 pieces of 251 with 264 non tier, but the net difference in dps isn't significant (within 5-10))
I have 36% mastery proc chance
about 50% crit before buffs
12.xx% haste
Eng and LW are my professions...seems LW will be worth keeping in Cata when bracers are 130 agi and not AP
Yesterday I saw the following numbers:
Doing the weekly on Noth I was able to score 12.8k dps on single target
Doing Fights in 25 ICC I hit from 10-12.5k on fights single target.

Gaara · 10/27/10, 11:29 AM

First time poster. I was wondering whats the top 5 weapons for feral kitties right now I know heroic lk Oathbinder is best. Whats next in line? Does the higher agility on heroic bloodfall make it superior to heroic distant land? I tried to use the new rawr but keeps crashing when I choose druid cat.

stormclaw · 10/27/10, 11:34 AM

I have followed this thread since its start and i am greatly concerned that we are going to once again be relegated to a class/spec that no one wants to run with. we cant be doing 10k dps less than the top. This nonesense of being a hybrid meaning we should do sub par dps has to stop.

By that argument than all the hybrid healers and tanks should be sub par at the chosen role. While i am not sure we can change this attitude at blizz we do need to make our voice heard more strongly. I have looked at the posts on the beta forum by rouncer and others and some of the data given there is fantastic but it seems to fall off the page and we have no way of knowing if blizz is even looking at our dps.

I am just wondering if anyone has any new ideas we can use to get the blues to take notice of what is a real issue that seems to be relgated once again to the back burner.

I also wanted to take the time to thank rouncer and Leva and all the others that have worked tirelesly to make our voice heard

Daisil · 10/27/10, 12:37 PM

Swift Rejuvenation is now a 1-Rank talent, down from 2 Ranks. Now reduces the GCD of Rejuvenation by 0.5 sec.

It appears that instead of fixing it, they just change it to a 1 point talent :P

Akronos · 10/27/10, 1:04 PM

Hi guys,

what do u think about "the Last Word" with the patch, is it worth it?

mfg