Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1400

saboya · 11/24/10, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by aylen86

TL;DR; Patch 4.0.3a - there is a dps loss for L85 balancing reasons but what's more of a problem is the revelation of severe design flaws which will hinder gameplay and scaling at later levels.

I did some Beta raiding when it was available, our DPS was looking good before the big nerfs. After that it was looking really bad, I don't think getting to 85 is going to make things much better than they are now, if they don't buff Ret DPS I don't see how we can justify a spot in a raid.

wyndchill · 11/25/10, 12:13 AM

Cant seem to locate a post on this. but...

What are mages in general doing about the loss of our spell hit talents in the 3.0 world currently?

Is it just time to regem/chant or are we looking for certain buff combo's or gear in raid that we must have at this point?

(havent played in last 10 months so im out of the loop at the moment)

Critscream · 11/25/10, 12:42 AM

Wait so mastery is actually better than white hit for Combat now? So what you are saying is, as combat (obviously with 3/3 precision) we should have less hit now than mutilate rogues (spell capping at 289 hit) and obviously after expertise cap has been reached, we are to reforge to straight haste and mastery? Not reforging to hit at all, and we should reforge excess hit after the spell cap to mastery even?

Thanks.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by StoicRoivaS

...you're probably best reforging into mastery, assuming the changes to combat's mastery were implemented with the patch. I can't for sure that they have, however.

Confirmed via Tooltip and cross-referencing with MMO-Champ for the initial Mastery Build for Combat rogues:

"* Main Gauche (Mastery) - Your main hand attacks have a 10% chance to grant you an extra off hand attack. Each point of Mastery increases the chance by an additional 1.25%."

Now in-game, tooltip reads "Your main hand attacks have a 16% chance to grant you an extra off hand attack. Each point of Mastery increases the chance by an additional 2.00%."

From MMO-Champ 4.03a Rogue Buffs "Main Gauche: Main hand attack now has a 16% chance to grant an additional off-hand attack (up from 10%). Mastery bonus increased.Compare tooltips"

Does this indeed mean that now Mastery is our official go to stat when we can't reforge haste and we are expertise / spell hit capped?

BinaryData · 11/25/10, 12:49 AM

I'm confused to high hell with this.

I'm a Gnome rogue that's geared out the yahoo. I'm confused on whether or not if I should do this or that, what I need to know is;

How much Hit do I need in total? (Gnome Combat Rogue)
Do I reforge to Mastery or not?
Which poisons go on what weapon?
As a Combat Rogue, do I NEED Haste or not?

Before I just asked people or looked them up on Wow-Heroes, but now I can't seem to do that.

WoW Armory Link - The World of Warcraft Armory - Zenzija @ The Forgotten Coast - Profile

I'm entirely confused on what I need and don't need. Elitist Jerk's is so god damn frustrating to understand sometimes.

Invisigotz · 11/25/10, 3:24 AM

Originally Posted by Vaelir

A Question to you Brainy People:
Does Empowered Shadows increase the dmg of DoTs already on the target or do they need reapplying when we have the buff to benefit from the damage increase? (SW:P is reapplied through mindflay, but what about DP/VT?)

U need to reapply them..

Eretikas · 11/25/10, 3:36 AM

If you are 80 level arcane mage with 5.6K+ Gearscore and you are using 4xAB+AM rotation then you are doing it WRONG. My average on Heroic Training Dummy (83 level, Skull):

DPS for 30 sec is 14,731 (Total Damage: 441,936)
DPS for 60 sec is 11,979 (Total Damage: 718,766)

So called "burn phase" (casting "Arcane Blasts" only, no Evocation) lasts for 85.39 seconds.

I've yet to meet a mage in my realm who can beat that. I am easily ending as TOP 1 on DPS charts in raids with members who all have better GearScore (5.8K+).

Mage must convert mana to damage. If mage ends fight with 100% mana bar then mage is not using his full capacity. A lot of mages with high gear score play it wrong in Cataclysm by using old "4 x [Arcane Blast] + [Arcane Missiles]" rotation. Problem is that players are not realizing that high level (gear score) mages can use just [Arcane Blast] in long fights as long as their Haste is limited to certain amount. Slow [Arcane Blasts] (4 stack) can do much more damage than fast but old 4xAB+AM rotation. Assumption that Haste is always better than Crit is wrong. Haste is good in very short fights but gives you completely NOTHING in very long mana burn fights. Haste just depletes your mana faster while Crit offers more DPS per mana.

This is my rotation:

1. Hold [ALT] key and press [1] 4 times to get 4 stacks of Arcane Blast (+63% DPS).
2. Use [Spellsteal] (optional)
3. Press [Mirror Image] macro button.
4. Release [ALT] key and cast with [1] key - this will use all trinkets and buffs when you are at max DPS
5. Use Evocate when mana depleted (after ~1 min 20 sec).
6. Continue with Arcane Blasts (key [1]) and consider Arcane Missiles only when low on mana again.

All macros (attached to keys [1], [2]) are on: WoW Arcane Mage - Resources

Graon · 11/25/10, 3:47 AM

Originally Posted by Critscream

Does this indeed mean that now Mastery is our official go to stat when we can't reforge haste and we are expertise / spell hit capped?

Yes ! I've personnaly tried that by keeping my hit rate at 291 (just above the spell hit cap) by "rereforging" stuffs previously reforged from crit to hit. Now, I have 1096 haste, 291 hit, 941 crit, 173 expertise score and 128 mastery (thus 21 %)

! Yesterday, I returned at the first place of the dps meter followed by the mages.

Nathyiel · 11/25/10, 3:55 AM

There's no combo or trick with Hit. You will have to change stuff, gem and enchant to cap your Hit to 17%
Only Draenei can lower Hit by 1%.

nxg · 11/25/10, 4:03 AM

Originally Posted by SentinelBorg

Which actually makes me wonder. Wasn't one of the advantages of the new patcher/downloader system, that they could apply such tooltip changes much faster even without a patch?

I just hope we see that change before or with the Cataclysm release, I want a working Meta while leveling.

Well a bugfix/hotfix client-side patch can be applied much smoother now, and I wouldn't be surprised if they would leave players confused for a bit, simply to get it in already before cata gets out, though that this mostly server side patch might be actually get in the way I described might as well be too much interpretation into the whole thing, but it seems to me that the idea to revert it was thhought through for a bit already, just not soon enough to get it in the patch without a chance of breaking too much.

n0point · 11/25/10, 4:37 AM

Originally Posted by Graon

Yes ! I've personnaly tried that by keeping my hit rate at 291 (just above the spell hit cap) by "rereforging" stuffs previously reforged from crit to hit. Now, I have 1096 haste, 291 hit, 941 crit, 173 expertise score and 128 mastery (thus 21 %)

! Yesterday, I returned at the first place of the dps meter followed by the mages.

Graon, could you please link a wol or wws log for that? I know this highly depends in the gear and experience of your mages, but it still seems to me that we shouldn't outdps them atm. Would also be interesting to look at the damage breakdown.
Here's my y-days log(we were finishing off the achivements for some people, so only DBS log can be taken seriously)
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Skem · 11/25/10, 6:39 AM

Originally Posted by wyndchill

Cant seem to locate a post on this. but...

What are mages in general doing about the loss of our spell hit talents in the 3.0 world currently?

Is it just time to regem/chant or are we looking for certain buff combo's or gear in raid that we must have at this point?

(havent played in last 10 months so im out of the loop at the moment)

Nathyiel speaks true.

Reforging is a better option then gemming/enchanting simiply because its so cheap to mix and max to get the best combination of secondary stats (hits/haste/crit in our case). Mage gemming just got really boring (gemming for int is just to sexy now it covers mana, spell power and a little crit), but it is early days yet

wyndchill · 11/25/10, 7:54 AM

Originally Posted by Skem

Nathyiel speaks true.

Reforging is a better option then gemming/enchanting simiply because its so cheap to mix and max to get the best combination of secondary stats (hits/haste/crit in our case). Mage gemming just got really boring (gemming for int is just to sexy now it covers mana, spell power and a little crit), but it is early days yet

so reforge for hit and regem for int is what the new sexiness is all about?

what about the meta? I assume were mostly heading down the chaotic path since mostly blue gems is just plain ugly?

Aenae · 11/25/10, 8:14 AM

Originally Posted by aylen86

These coeffecient changes were announced some pages ago by redcape and exemplar and represent our L85 balancing:
- TV was nerfed from 290 to 235 weapon damage
- CS was nerfed from 130 to 115 weapon damage
- HoW base damage was nerfed
- Exo was buffed quite a bit at the expense of our seal of truth and judgement damage

TL;DR; Patch 4.0.3a - there is a dps loss for L85 balancing reasons but what's more of a problem is the revelation of severe design flaws which will hinder gameplay and scaling at later levels.

They also fixed some bugs; Censure doesn't retain it's original haste anymore (nerfing censure damage by another ~10%) and rebuke doesn't proc seals anymore.
This combined with the above nerfs made my dps drop around 25% from 20k on saurfang to 15k.

It is funny tho, it shows that gear is useless, it is the class, not the player that makes the difference. On our kill the 2 ret-paladins were dead last on the damage meters, followed by 3 warriors; and both rets and all warriors have shadowmourne. The top of the meters was reserved for rogues, locks, mages all with 20k+.

Elimite · 11/25/10, 9:36 AM

DPS Meta Gem requirements changes
The current design has been reconsidered, so we're planning to revert gems that now require more blue than red gems back to their original requirements. Such a change can't be accomplished via a hotfix though, so we'll have to wait to revert these in a future patch.

Source: [url=http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/136970/dps-meta-gem-changechange-it-back[/url]

Stick with RED.

With the new buff to Mastery it is much better than hit to stack but still worse than haste.

Yaminomeph · 11/25/10, 11:07 AM

I've seen a lot of people touting the merits of using a dagger in the offhand and i'm wondering if this is currently a good practice. Maybe I'm just oldschool and so set in the belief that assassin should use 2 daggers combat should use 2 swords

(you should have seen the pouting when we had to start using axes)