Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1423

Sun_Tzu · 12/13/10, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Cyfir

That would be true if there wasn't a better throughput stat than crit. However, haste is a far superior stat for throughput. 1 spirit and 3 haste will give you better throughput than 4 crit, while providing similar benefit in regen, while having the added advantage of being more flexible and predictable in your healing output.

Is haste truly that much better in terms of throughput though, given that we're now dealing with a nearly 0 overhealing environment? HEP calculations during beta, as I remember, at least indicated that the worth of haste would fall quite a bit in this kind of situation.

I suppose 25man raidhealers will get more mileage out of haste, but for myself, running 10mans, crit would seem intuitively better.

Sinndir · 12/13/10, 11:08 PM

Anyone else having a rough time macro'ing Holy Word: Chastise/Sanc/Seren to a mouseover macro. I get the error that I haven't learned that spell, ha!

#showtooltip
/cast [target=mouseover] Holy Word: Chastise; [target=mouseover] Holy Word: Sanctuary
[target=mouseover] Holy Word: Serenity

Sherpa · 12/13/10, 11:10 PM

I'm a resto shammy with a gear average of 321 and i'm trying to figure out which dungeons are best for getting the best gear drops because it's pretty painful only seeing tank drops over and over.

Also, what is the best way to go about healing now? It seems my mana expends much faster than what it use to be. I haven't healed that much in dungeons for cata quite yet due to lack of gear but i have tried HW and RT seem to work well but GHW eats up alot of mana now. Yes, i plan on doing raids as well. Any advice would be great. Thanks.

Sylarx · 12/13/10, 11:39 PM

I was curious if there would be a Blood Dk Guide like there is for Unholy and Frost.

Senres · 12/14/10, 12:17 AM

Yeah, it's bugged. There's a post in another thread about it, but I forget which one. I'll just post my macro:

#showtooltip holy word: chastise
/target [@mouseover,exists]
/click MultiBarBottomRightButton8
/targetlasttarget

You'll have to change MultiBarBottomRightButton8 to some button on your screen where you have placed Holy Word: Chastise. You can run the following line in your chat frame while hovering over the button to see what the frame is called:

/script print(GetMouseFocus():GetName())

tusnek · 12/14/10, 1:01 AM

This is in response to ektoplasme's post with the dps tables from the calculator program. Is ekto saying that a fire mage with pre-raid blues is capable of maintaining 19.6k dps with his 10,000 iteration calculation?

Secondly, I would love to see some talk about potions to use! Currently I believe volcanic potions might be the best sort of potion 90% of the time. Pop one of those bad boys at 35% and maybe some of your trinket uses or time warp and watch your numbers soar! However, I also believe mythical mana potions could maintain a spot in my bag for aoe heavy fights.

Nebukadnezzar · 12/14/10, 5:13 AM

Originally Posted by Cyfir

That would be true if there wasn't a better throughput stat than crit. However, haste is a far superior stat for throughput. 1 spirit and 3 haste will give you better throughput than 4 crit, while providing similar benefit in regen, while having the added advantage of being more flexible and predictable in your healing output.

Do we really know that 3 haste, give us more throughput than 4 crit? I'm sorry that I don't know the math by hard, but for me it looks like that this doesn't apply anymore. Haste lost much of its use and since crit really pushes effective healing (compared to WOTLK where it mostly pushed just our overheal) and still heightens our chance to proc AA.

Another argument in terms of throughput: in WOTLK, you already noticed a small increase in haste (e.g. 100 haste) because of the high number of spells you casted during an encounter. I can't believe that you would notice the same increase now (assuming you increase the 100 haste to get the correct relation), where you cast a dramatically lower number of spells during an encounter.

mmjau · 12/14/10, 5:18 AM

1. Do you ever use flame orb in raids? When in the rotation is it worth it?

2. When to optimally use your rocket barrage as a goblin during a boss fight?

3. Is there any other use of Mirror Images without the set bonus than a threat drop? Do their fireballs (Glyphed) have a chance to proc anything? Hot streaks? Master of Elements?

4. As a fire mage, how much haste should you optimally stay around for optimal LB ticks? I have 500-600 haste right now and I see most mages around that.

Nixilis · 12/14/10, 5:22 AM

Since Cata has hit and ive been gearing myself ive found that its impossible to hit 102.4% avoidance in the blue gear availible. Im not sure if im missing something or not but just combining the PC+DC+BC+MC the most im getting in all jp gear and some heroic pieces is at around 84% max. Ive even went a step further and followed the links posted above and in that forum post the author even breaks down his avoidance in raid gear and its still not at 102.4. Whats going on?

P.S. Ive been a long time reader for some time and as we all know elitistjerks is the go to place for information, however this tank thread has been falling apart lately. The information isnt clearly broken down a lot of times and some of the information wouldnt be useful unless you have read another post on another forum or what have you. Is there a way we can fix this, as it really is becoming a turn off to the forum. I love coming here for information but its becoming easier to be honest to go to google and find the info. (im not trying to rage just simply offering some constructive critisim.)

Dritharia · 12/14/10, 6:31 AM

Has anyone revaluated the stat weights from the first post? Or are they still in the proper position?
I am asking this question, as from my observation I have found a few shamans from top raiding guilds reforging and gemming into spirit and mastery.
They are completely avoiding haste as for now, which has been mentioned as number 2 in the stat weight list.

charriu · 12/14/10, 6:48 AM

delete please

Morrka · 12/14/10, 6:55 AM

Originally Posted by Nebukadnezzar

Do we really know that 3 haste, give us more throughput than 4 crit? I'm sorry that I don't know the math by hard, but for me it looks like that this doesn't apply anymore. Haste lost much of its use and since crit really pushes effective healing (compared to WOTLK where it mostly pushed just our overheal) and still heightens our chance to proc AA.

Another argument in terms of throughput: in WOTLK, you already noticed a small increase in haste (e.g. 100 haste) because of the high number of spells you casted during an encounter. I can't believe that you would notice the same increase now (assuming you increase the 100 haste to get the correct relation), where you cast a dramatically lower number of spells during an encounter.

Once Healing Wave works as a filler spell (with enough spirit + crit) , haste becomes even more interesting as in WOTLK. Riptided Healing wave like LHW in WotLK determines the softcap of haste. But haste also decreases the time between ticks of Healing Rain so your Throughput can get much much higher with haste because it affects more than one spell and more than one target at a given time.

Correct me if I missed something

Glowyrm · 12/14/10, 7:10 AM

Originally Posted by Alv!ra

@ Glowyrm: Assuming Elerions math is correct (and looks to me as if it is), then Heal and Gheal have roughly the same MPH due to Inner Focus cd reduction from gheal, so there's really no need to not use Gheal if it won't be overhealing.

Ah yes I didn't even think about that. Well in that case it's completely situational for me still, not just "will it overheal",

If I'm in a situation where something can go sour for the tank and he can drop quickly, which still happens, I would want to keep shield up with Heal.

If I have to use a lot of PoH, I might want to GHeal the tank a bit more and Inner Focus PoH whenever I can. Something along those lines.

And maybe it's in my head, but I definitely feel like I go oom faster when I GHeal + IF spam as opposed to Heal spam.

mofidik · 12/14/10, 7:12 AM

Ideas about reaching immunity to normal hits stems from when holy shield added more chance to block, rather than the increased amount of blocked damage it gives now.

Nebukadnezzar · 12/14/10, 7:26 AM

Originally Posted by Morrka

Once Healing Wave works as a filler spell (with enough spirit + crit) , haste becomes even more interesting as in WOTLK. Riptided Healing wave like LHW in WotLK determines the softcap of haste. But haste also decreases the time between ticks of Healing Rain so your Throughput can get much much higher with haste because it affects more than one spell and more than one target at a given time.

Correct me if I missed something

No it seems quite reasonable, I guess we just spoke from different situations. My statement was about the situation at the moment (without enough spirit + crit). I did not question the fact, that in the end, haste will be the superior stat in terms of throughput, but at this very moment it "feels" like crit boosts my troughput more then haste and if I think about it, it seems reasonable as well (though I'm still not able to put it into correct math)