I spanked target dummy for an hour with offhand Hurricane enchant, and found that spell component can be procced by deadly poison only. I'm gonna make a guess and say that 2 enchants both can stack their own spell component buff. Offhand spell component buff can be procced off of offhand "spell" attacks only. on the other hand, main hand spell component of the enchant SHOULD procc from magical attacks that come from main hand, such as venomous wounds, envenom and instant poisons. If I was to guess again, i would say that enchants (offhand and main hand one) act separatly, and "offhand spell buff" can be refreshed or stacked onto "offhand melee buff" and vice versa. People reported from various sources that they saw it stacked four times.
With all this guessing I would go again and guess, since Avalanche is a spell damage that came from the other hand in a Avalanche/Hurricanee scenario can't proc Hurricane enchant...
Has anything been completed in way of an ilvl 359 raid tier list/ 372 list? I've been messing with RAWR and talking to other mages on my server, we can't seem to find a list. If I'm wrong, please let me know, I just can't seem to find anything at the moment.
Who's the mage? Strong and healthy Horde mage.
Whatchoo gonna eat, mana biscuits? Hell no!
Maybe this isn't so much a simple question.. but I couldn't find an appropriate thread for it. >.<
I prefer Subtlety for PvE, but after hitting 85 and falling behind others I specced Mutilate and was mostly top 1-3 in dps in 10-man and usually top in heroics, at least on boss fights, it really made a difference just changing spec. But now, with better gear, I'm gonna try again, have reforged/gemmed for the appropriate stats, according to the raiding FAQ here.
But I'm wondering about the actual rotation.
In exaclty what order should you put up your buffs/debuffs?
SnD -> melee haste
Rupture -> 10% more damage
Recuperate -> faster energy
Should you start with garrote or ambush and is it worth doing anything but ambush during shadowdance? Should you chain Find Weakness as much as possible, save it for premed/shadowstep CD's or save a vanish for Time Warp?
And what if SnD/Recuperate/Rupture ends almost simultaneously? What to prioritize? Is there an opening rotation to avoid this dilemma?
Share your thoughts and experiences please. Us subbers must stand united now to endure this discrimination! ^__^
Long time reader, noobie poster (Go easy - Really sorry for how long this is! Please don't let me get in trouble
So apparently around the same time as me Luasokor did some work on a similar concept, I had however already typed this message out ready to post before I realised he had already covered some of the content so forgive me for repeating in a couple places.
I'm going to try and keep this as short as possible because it gets pretty hairy for the casual reader...
Here goes... Using this specc (and glyphs) I hope to demonstrate a new rotation that yields some pretty impressive DPS.
The rotation I list below requires a [Potion of Speed] and the troll racial 'Berserking' but a modified alternative without these is also possible.
This rotation requires 1935 haste on gear which is a little much to ask with my current gear (all normal/heroic atm) but I think I can reach this with some reforging and tight itemising. This equates to a constant attack speed of 49.983%, so long as I maintain Imp. SS buff (15% ranged attack speed for 8 sec) which shouldn't be a problem by following the rotation below (if the Imp. SS buff DOES drop then attack speed drops to 1.534 which can temporarily slow the roation a fraction but is not detrimental as by the next ES it should be back to the optimal casting speed, this should not, however EVER happen if what I've worked out is all correct).
The idea of this rotation is to maintain the Imp. SS haste buff so that combined with the Hunting Party 10% haste, Pathing 3% haste and 1935 static haste on gear the SS/CS cast time becomes 1.333(recurring). At this casting speed it is possible to fit 3 CS/SS and 1 instant shot per ES CD (1+1+1.3+1.3+1.3=6sec). Now I KNOW that survival DOESN'T use SS because CS does plenty more damage and keeps SrpS rolling but with this rotation there's enough CSs going out to keep the SrpS DoT up AND guarantee an AS almost every 6secs (with the exception of when BA/ET needs to be re-cast, which is roughly 1/4 ASs, due to resourcefulness dropping the BA&traps CD to 24s).
THE BASIC ROTATION!
Due to the 8 sec duration of Imp. SS if I cast 2 SS DIRECTLY BEFORE ES then the buff would kick in as I cast the ES which means the next double SS does not need to be cast until directly AFTER the next ES, allowing the time inbetween to be spent on 3 CS + 1 instant. Then that Imp.SS buff being applied as you begin to cast the next CS/AS/ET means that once you have cast, for example, an AS and CS you then cast ES, 1 CS another AS and still have time to begin casting the second SS thus maintaining the buff throughout any entire non-hasted aspects of the fight. This creates a slightly more complicated rotation than just ES>SS>SS>CS>AS> but instead creates a continuous cycle that also allows you to maximise the number of CSs because they are, afterall, the better of the two whilst also never allowing the Imp.SS buff to drop).
Focus Regenaeration of this rotation:
As already stated, due to the constant haste buffs on the go my attack speed, which is constant, should always be at 49.983% during the main portion of the rotation that requires the focus. Now if my calculations are correct (which they probably aren't) then to work out the constant focus regen it is:
FR = 4 x (1+49.983/100)
I make this to be 5.99932 FPS but I'm not entirely sure if this equation is right. Also I am aware of discussion about some aspects of the FR (i.e. to do with Hunting Party) not working correctly at the moment but this figure does sound about right so as such I have based any further calculations on this regen rate.
After the opening rotation below which should leave me on above 80 focus I then continue with the previously mentioned rotation which would cost (per ES, 3 casted and 1 AS) 66 focus but regen 27 focus from the casted shots + (5.99932 x 6) = 62.99592. Therefore for every 6s rotation I am only losing ~3 focus, then on top of this taking the average TotH values from Goldengiff earlier this sees me at a fractional focus GAIN. On top of this, as I have also already mentioned, I would be using ET instead of BA to be on the safe side to begin with until more passive haste is accumulated. I believe (and THINK I have proved) that not only is this rotation sustainable but is also a DPS gain.*Note* I removed the part about the damage this rotation yields compared to the current typical hunter rotation because it was too poorly calculated but it DID come out at a DPS increase if anyone would care to offe rtheir own calculations.
The down-side to this rotation is that you MAY be required to switch every other BA with an ET so as to guarantee there's always going to be enough focus in the bank for the other shots (if TotH ends up doing it's job then it may not even be necessary to drop BA but for the meantime I think it will be needed on some of them) but on the up-side ET is not very far behind in DPS and actually gives a better LnL proc chance anyway so that's a trade-off I'm willing to accept. (Also I aknowledge that ET is not GREAT for fights that involve boss movement but go with me for a minute will ya?!) *note* BA is not COMPLETELY dropped from the rotation, just occassionally, as you will see from the demo rotation below you actually start with BA as the 4th ability and then use it again when it's off CD.
Why didn't I just put the whole thing into the spreadsheet? - Crucial point - this rotation CAN'T be simulated right now (if I understand correctly) because it utilises both SS & CS!!!
Now for the Cherry on Top:
With this opener below in the code box, for the first ~55 seconds of the fight (give or take 1 second) I will achieve a whopping 24 CS, 10 SS, 10 ES, 2 AS, 2 BA, 1 SrpS, 1 ET which totals 50 abilities in 55 seconds. Key of abbrevs. (ES = Explosive Shot, HM = Hunter's Mark, SrpS = Serpent Sting, TL = Trap Launcher, ET = Explosive Trap, AS = Arcane Shot, CS = Cobra Shot, SS = Steady Shot)
Boss Rotation from start:
* followed by a number is for notes about that part of the rotation
*1 *2 *3 *4
HM>SrpS>ES>BA>SS>SS>CS>ES>CS>Potion of Speed-CS>CS>AS>ES>Berserking-CS>CS>CS>CS>ES>CS>CS>SS>SS>ES>BA>RF-CS>CS>CS>CS>ES>SS>SS>CS>CS>CS>ES>CS>CS>CS>SS>SS>ES>AS>CS>CS>CS>ES>SS>SS>ET>CS>ES
*1 First prob here, opted for <CS< which delays ES by approx .35sec (free alternatives are Mend Pet, Feign Death and Scatter shot, none of which delays ES, Feign Death may be best bet if pulling lots of threat, MP on high damage fights and Scatter Shot on rest for a fractional damage bost that is free).
*2 End of PoS & Bers. here so last 2 casted/regen shots are SSs so that when RF the CT of casted/regen shots are =1sec (This means I can cast 5 CS/SS per ES during RF).
*3 RF ends here.
*4 From here on we follow the standard rotation as described above
Further Notes on the Rotation:
- The exact rotation above is JUST FOR THE OPENING OF THE FIGHT. The main part of the rotation that I'm trying to get across (for every ES there are 3 casted shots and 1 instant) is achievable by any race of hunter and without haste proccs other than Imp.SS. This part follows on immediately from where the above rotation ends.
- When Berserking is back off CD later on in the fight (this is also why it is used before RF, to allow it to come off CD sooner) I would wait until a) focus is getting low (less than 50) b) SS>SS>ES then pop it and spam 4 CSs>ES and then continue with the normal rotation with plenty of time left on Imp.SS.
- I will also be looking to use a cunning pet with this set-up/rotation (probably Wind Serpent or Dragonhawk so as to benefit from the magic damage increase if it's not already being provided), for the Roar of Recovery talented ability which would provide the additional needed focus when the basic rotation causes the focus to drop too low this should then help bide time until the next Berserking (which should get me back up to close to the cap ready to go again.
How to deal with LnL proccs during each stage of the rotation:
- During the standard, non-hasted aspects of the rotation: (following a double SS preferably so that the SS buff lasts until the next time it's applied) (SS>SS>)ES>CS>ES>AS>ES>CS>AS>SS>SS>ES (Back on track with roation and also maintaining the Imp.SS buff throughout).
*Needs some more work but I am now going to bed because I'm driving home tomorrow from France (16-18 hours trip and also the reason why I haven't actually been able to test any of this myself live in game yet).
I´m sorry but none of this makes sense at all. It has been stated earlier on this thread that going for Imp SS means a huge dps loss in any way you try it, and any spec based on imp. SS is gimmick and subpar right now. If you want to demonstrate your point it´s needed either sim reports or live logs to back up your statement
I always use Riptide on CD and i use Unleash Life for fights like Chimaeron where the tank drops instant. Compared with Nature's Swiftness you can create a very usefull "oh shit tank is going to die" macro and with buffs it crits with +-45k.
The thing is, I tend to go oom way to fast. Even a lv 84 paladin outhealed me(he had avg iLvl 330, and I 333).
I don't know where the problem lies.
The question is, what spells should i use in the different situations in a raid, or heroics even? i know it sounds stupid, but how often should I use Unleash Life and Riptide, and so on?
I don't know if it matters, but my current stats are :
Spirit-2143(Combat regen is at 2127)
Was thinking the EXACT same thing as Validuz, how the heck does Rawr calculate the DPS? Since it says that trinkets that will make me go under spell hit cap is better and caster trinkets are better then some of the dps trinkets etc =S
Please try and avoid quoting such huge posts unless its needed in my opinion.
Just some thoughts as to why we may be seeing some raiding hunters not stacking crit. These are weak arguments, and feel free to shoot them down.
A reason for haste stacking may be for its suitability and utility in a raid encounter. A shorter cobra cast may allow you to finish your cast before moving (out of fire pillar on magmaw for example). It will also allow us to regen focus faster with faster cobra shots while aoeing, allowing quicker burst aoe. I'm generally just feeling that with raiding being so new, that single target dps optimization may not be as important as following complex reflex-based fight mechanics and add nuking.
Okay, mastery is harder to come up with an explanation for. My only guess is despite affecting less shots than crit - it doesn't depend on RNG. Though ofc over infinite time it will average out that crit is better, but boss attempts aren't infinite in time
Just so you know, I'm personally stacking crit when it comes to secondary stats. I was just expressing some thoughts as to why people may not be following the current.gospel. I appreciate very much the hard work that goes into the spreadsheet, but with everything so new and with frequent developments, many should go and spend time at the dummies instead of expecting straight forward answers from a spreadsheet.
If they make it so Regrowth refreshes Lifebloom hots then... how the hell are we supposed to burst heal or heal with lifebloom expiration? We'd have to idle from direct healing for 10 seconds? In emergency healing situations I usually use Regrowth over NS/HT because it doesn't refresh lifebloom and lets it bloom, I guess GotEM will become more situational and not worth the 3 points.
They're nerfing OoC so that's a chunk of our mana gone, I just hope they don't nerf it to the ground (2% ooc from lifebloom for 2 points)