Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1467

Villiann · 12/29/10, 3:32 PM

regarding the haste and dots, i have tested it with 517 haste and 3/3 NP and can confirm that this is enough to get the 5th tick.

Andenthal · 12/29/10, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by Valtiel

A possible way of making Slam a viable rotation spell would be that of giving Slam a 3 sec cd, and adding a "once the attack lands, the character will immediately perform a melee attack". The swingtimer would reset from there. Would make it very desireable in PVE (and possibly a small dps boost compared to now); it's a "bursty" solution so it would go hand in had with eventual fixes to CS.

The other core problem is the cost effectiveness of Slam. Yes, it's cheap, but each cast supresses some of your rage income.

Another issue fury has with Slam is that under the best conditions Slam needs to be used in conjunction with a swingtimer, something hardly optimized when you're dualwielding. Nothing crippling, but still something to consider.

You shouldn't be hitting Slam without a Bloodsurge proc. Pretty much solves those issues.

thongfiend · 12/29/10, 3:50 PM

My guild ran a raid last night and brought a new holy pally to the guild. he was using divine light in his rotation, and i was using holy light instead. well according to meters i beat him every time. i know divine light heals for a higher amount but i cant understand what the difference would be as i know were both talented healers. can anyone explain this to me. his gear is also better than mine

Luasokor · 12/29/10, 3:54 PM

Originally Posted by Jo_

Right, now I'm confused. Earlier on in the discussion it seemed like the reason to stack mastery over crit was some type of crit softcap and that with raidbuffs that would be very possible (someone said 38% or so?). If the cap is 51% the discussion is mostly of theoretical importance and for the next 6 months I'll just reforge it all to crit (or haste).

Yeah, basically. I mean, to be honest...I really need to find some good logs of top hunters and analyze. I have been going off of my own research and testing. I pull around 16k dps with my rotation and gear. I keep a cast time on CoS of 1.65-1.66s. I make hit cap. After that, I stack as much agi and crit as I can (agi obviously being more important than crit). My gear isn't the greatest...mostly 346 blues and terrible trinkets.

I know my dps isn't the best...but I know that it is FAR from the worst. I've run with some pretty terrible hunters and only 1 who was able to come close to matching my dps. (he was using the same haste cap as I was, but was stacking mastery over crit).

In any case, my point is...a lot of people are stacking mastery over crit and I hear tales of the wonderment of survival mastery, but I have yet to see logs. What I do see is myself pwning face with crit...well...pwning enough face to satisfy myself and my guild. That doesn't mean that I'm doing it the best way though. In fact...I'm probably not, I just don't see a justification for doing it any other way.

elothemage · 12/29/10, 4:17 PM

This question is regarding the firelord's set -

I have ran the numbers in rawr using optimal raid buffs and setup. Currently i have not been able to get a higher score with hybrid items than with the 4 piece set bonus. Has anyone ran the numbers as of yet to determine what the actual 10% increased cast time of those spells equates too? (specifically regarding fire)

Valaran · 12/29/10, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by elothemage

This question is regarding the firelord's set -

I have ran the numbers in rawr using optimal raid buffs and setup. Currently i have not been able to get a higher score with hybrid items than with the 4 piece set bonus. Has anyone ran the numbers as of yet to determine what the actual 10% increased cast time of those spells equates too? (specifically regarding fire)

First, this belongs in the Rawr thread. Second, it relates to an issue already identified in such, that the T11 bonuses aren't modeled correctly yet. If you look at the spell data on Pyroblast, it's crit rate is the same with or without 2PC, and Fireball's cast time is only slightly different with or without 4PC, due most likely to the presence or lack of Haste Rating on those pieces. Another issue is that 99% of mages don't yet have 4PC in order to test cast time numbers.

Irkzak · 12/29/10, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by Jarin

So... are the extra ticks on Riptide or the extra ELW effect worth about 2% haste or 1.7% crit or 1.7 mastery rating? My guess is "no" based on what I'm seeing in heroics at the moment (and likely a much more forceful "no" in raid, but we'll see when I look at the log splits).

The thing is, do i need to reforge 250 into spirit? Probably not! Actually, i have only +92 in spirit, and part of it was reforged from HIT (Yeah, i know that i shouldnt use that item, but nothing better came yet), and from mastery (which, in my opinion suck really hard).

342 item level brings almost everything that u need, normally, a criti+haste item, doesnt come with spirit, that would be the case when i find WS glyph worth, but, we dont need to reforge for spirit, not that much.

By the way, what about starting scrapping some HEPs for this expansion?

silverclaw4 · 12/29/10, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by Luasokor

Yeah, basically. I mean, to be honest...I really need to find some good logs of top hunters and analyze. I have been going off of my own research and testing. I pull around 16k dps with my rotation and gear. I keep a cast time on CoS of 1.65-1.66s. I make hit cap. After that, I stack as much agi and crit as I can (agi obviously being more important than crit). My gear isn't the greatest...mostly 346 blues and terrible trinkets.

I know my dps isn't the best...but I know that it is FAR from the worst. I've run with some pretty terrible hunters and only 1 who was able to come close to matching my dps. (he was using the same haste cap as I was, but was stacking mastery over crit).

In any case, my point is...a lot of people are stacking mastery over crit and I hear tales of the wonderment of survival mastery, but I have yet to see logs. What I do see is myself pwning face with crit...well...pwning enough face to satisfy myself and my guild. That doesn't mean that I'm doing it the best way though. In fact...I'm probably not, I just don't see a justification for doing it any other way.

^ I've noticed the same thing. Let I still hear agi is better, we need more proof.

Damien · 12/29/10, 4:43 PM

Originally Posted by Kamorahh

I'm so confused with everything now on my Priest......lol My Hit rating is 913 or 15.37%. My haste is 12.72% and Crit is 16.36%. This is all without buffs. Now the issue I am having and I really hope someone can help me because before Cata I didn't have this issue. But I run out of mana REAL fast. I can do a max of 2 fights before having to mana again.

Not good when your in a dungeon cause no-one wants to stop for you. What should my spirit be? And should I get rid of the talent that turns spirit to hit? Any help would be awesome. Thanks in advance.

Keep the Spirit>Hit talent, as it gives you extra hit while still keeping all the regen from the spirit. Then, you can reforge Hit into Spirit on your gear. Also, use SW

eath more frequently, even when the mob is above 25% health, to return more mana.

Luasokor · 12/29/10, 4:46 PM

I'm confused. Agi IS better...I even said so in ().

elothemage · 12/29/10, 5:33 PM

Originally Posted by Valaran

First, this belongs in the Rawr thread. Second, it relates to an issue already identified in such, that the T11 bonuses aren't modeled correctly yet. If you look at the spell data on Pyroblast, it's crit rate is the same with or without 2PC, and Fireball's cast time is only slightly different with or without 4PC, due most likely to the presence or lack of Haste Rating on those pieces. Another issue is that 99% of mages don't yet have 4PC in order to test cast time numbers.

This is not a rawr question by any means.
The 10% cast rate bonus could greatly change the fire mage burn phase/rotation. The question is relative to fire mage mechanics, more so than the actual gear, as it would great change the point value EVEN MORE after the soft haste cap is reached, thus possibly making crit and mastery more/less valuable. On top of this - It would further increase the dps of fireball compared to scorch.

Eccho · 12/29/10, 5:48 PM

So I'm still a little uncertain about the where expertise fits in to the priorty of adjusting stats for an assasination rogue.

As a general rule what is the second best stat to focus on after the spell hit cap?

Right now between gear stats, gemming and reforging, I am right at 1332 hit which is what EJ shows with 2/3 precision. Most of this was done by reforging crit into hit. My gems are all +agi with the exception of a blue for the socket bonus.

I still have a few pieces to reforge, but the choices are to take haste into either mastery or expertise. I only have an expertise rating of 76 which is way below the cap.

Considering that reforging into expertise wouldn't even bring me high enough up to the cap, is it better to keep the haste? or reforge it into mastery? (Current mastery rating is at 970 (or 13.41)

Should I reduce my hit to bring expertise up?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Eccho

Valaran · 12/29/10, 5:55 PM

Originally Posted by elothemage

This is not a rawr question by any means.
The 10% cast rate bonus could greatly change the fire mage burn phase/rotation. The question is relative to fire mage mechanics, more so than the actual gear, as it would great change the point value EVEN MORE after the soft haste cap is reached, thus possibly making crit and mastery more/less valuable. On top of this - It would further increase the dps of fireball compared to scorch.

Apologies; my mistake in understanding your question. At least as far as Rawr is concerned, this has been submitted in the Issue Tracker. I really don't know if anyone can test and answer this until someone gets 4PC. Depending on Cho'gall's generosity, I might have it this week - and if so, would happily help test with any number of spec combinations/ etc.

Mistapanda · 12/29/10, 6:04 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Brief comment for now, but my mana situation has gotten vastly better over just a few raids. Honestly, I'm not sure how much of it is gear and how much is paying more attention to Mana Tide (which is just an absurd amount of mana if you buy or at least rent Core of Ripeness to go along with it). Sometimes I revert to spamming Rejuv at the end of the fight just to spend it.

But the result is that I have no idea whether Druid regen is too weak, too strong or just right, or whether things like OoC need a nerf. It's impossible to make any sound judgements about mana balance when Mana Tide washes it all away--I'll try to pay particular attention to how my longevity feels next time I don't have MTT.

edit: To see what MTT+trinket looks like, check out 2:14 in this video:
YouTube - Juggernaut vs. Ascendant Council, 25-man

My god Hamlet....your choice in music baffles and amuses me at the same time while I nostalgia hard about the year I played this with my college orchestra....Cheers!

Shareth · 12/29/10, 6:07 PM

Originally Posted by royaljester

Correct me if I misread, but much of the earlier sections of this page seemed to point to stacking Parry/Dodge over stam and letting mastery have it's own space. I've tried both Stam stacking and reforging/gemming to more parry/dodge and less hit/exp and seem to take less overall damage as the latter in heroics. Now, in a raid, threat might be an issue as most people are min-max'd as much as you are, but we've only had a few raiding tanks speak to that.

Was that not the gist of the discussion a few posts back? I would like to know for myself as well, even if there might not be the math to back it up, subjective, anecdotal answers might provide enough for now.

I've been a fan of avoidance/mastery idea until I tanked some in raids. IMO stamina is a must (gem for it, i personally go for socket bonuses though with dodge/stam and parry/stam gems). After that you go either full mastery, full avoidance or balance of both.

As for threat - its a non-issue.