Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1486

Anarchthael · 01/05/11, 2:09 AM

I've been following BloodSim and LichLoathe's numbers for a few days now and am curious to see the results with some more real world data.

I'll post my stats here now for use if someone wants to sim them, and then grab my logs for analysis later.

(Note all stats are unbuffed with no HoW)

Hit - 7.93%
Exp - 14
Mastery - 108%
Gems - Parry/Stam/Mastery(mixes of all of them)
HP - ~158k unbuffed
Avoidance - ~28.46%
Armor - ~ 30000
Enchant - Garg

Chryzm · 01/05/11, 2:43 AM

Cobra Shot seems to not refresh Serpent Stings Applied by Serpent Spread anymore...

Anarchthael · 01/05/11, 2:45 AM

I can't quote yet but I thought this statement was interesting:

"Some things to consider about when mastery loses a whole lot of its value. When you are forced to do other things besides deathstrike. Spamming LB cooldown. Again, mastery is not helping you while you spam DC's on yourself. Avoidance all the while is still functioning at 100%."

Actually no it's not. Diminishing returns will start to kick in at some point. If you are using LB DC's I think it would be a fair argument that you are well enough into a fight that DR will have begun to start affecting your avoidance, in which case stamina would start to be the primary factor for increasing TTL.

"Picking up adds. Outbreak/IT -> DnD -> Pest -> BB. All the while avoidance is working for you, mastery is not as you cannot DS yet."

It should be fairly noted that at this point you would have Bone Shield up as well - which will provide some mitigation on these initial hits whilst you can't get a DS in, and if you are lucky enough to have time for the CD to finish, you can easily have 6 physical hits mitigated before you even need to DS. Admittedly this makes you a mana sponge for healers during this initial pickup - but those 6 hits will at least be mitigated and hopefully provide time for rune refreshes to allow for a DS to start proccing your blood shields.

Súny · 01/05/11, 3:07 AM

hey guys,

which item is the best non set item? 4er bonus is a must have i think

exist a BIS list?

jundo · 01/05/11, 3:15 AM

I was wondering about the dps bonus cd's. Avenging Wrath, Zealotry, and Gaurdian. Generally speaking most fights give you enough time to only use one of each cd per fight. For a ret pally would it be best to rotate them to have a more maintained higher dps or in conjuction. If in rotation when it is best to pop them? After a tank establishes TPS, should I pop all 3 in the hopes of being able to use them again during the fight?

Deathntaxes · 01/05/11, 3:15 AM

Actually no it's not. Diminishing returns will start to kick in at some point.

My understanding of diminishing returns on Avoidance is that the more rating you have the more rating you need to reach the next percentage increase.
I am not quite sure what you mean by Diminishing returns kicking in at some point of the fight? Whatever your avoidance level is, it will remain that throughout the fight, buffs, debuffs and CD's not withstanding.
ie whatever your character sheet says your avoidance chance is.

You are right that Bone Shield could be used to mitigate 20% of our dmg taken for x amount of time. The thing you are not considering is that the value of x is increased in that time by the amount of avoided physical hits. The higher your avoidance is, the longer it will take (on average) for those mobs to remove the charges of Bone shield. Once again, Mastery is not helping here while you are not DS'ing. It is far better to avoid those hits entirely while you grab the adds, than it is to take those hits at a 20% reduction.

The use of a % reduction in dmg taken CD, cannot be used to justify gemming one way or the other. As the CD effects all survival stats equally.
Bone shield is infact a bad example as its duration is not fixed, and is extended by the amount of fully absorbed or mitigated hits. Lending to the argument that avoidance is a stronger stat for bone shield than mastery in this situation.

The fact of the matter is still that during that time, avoidance it working for you, and mastery is not, because you are not pressing the DS button.

zannis · 01/05/11, 3:20 AM

Has anyone been found to create, update and maintain an affliction thread for cataclysm?

Did a quick search of this thread to see if this had been asked, and apologize if I missed it.

NEloi · 01/05/11, 3:48 AM

About DR and avoidance, like Deathntaxes says its value does not change during a fight, its the second time I see someone claiming this mechanic, stop spreading misinformation

Niemandem · 01/05/11, 4:03 AM

Originally Posted by Chryzm

Cobra Shot seems to not refresh Serpent Stings Applied by Serpent Spread anymore...

Did it ever do it? And btw it doesn't refresh but rather prolong it.

Nevertheless I experienced yesterday in a five man heroic, when you apply the normal sting, on the boss for instance, but later in the fight you multi-shot the boss together with some adds, the sting on the boss doesn't get replaced by the "non-prolongable" serpent spread sting...
So aside from the question if it's intended or not (does anyone know?), I think there are not too many situations where it's a noticeable disadvantage, as long as you don't (have to) open the fight with a multi-shot.

Anarchthael · 01/05/11, 4:15 AM

Okay I will admit I was incorrect regarding the fact that over a fight DR stops the effectiveness of avoidance - slight memory failure there regarding how DR works with that.

Deathntaxes you are correct regarding x time and Bone Shield. The point I was attempting to make though - is that Bone Shield provides an alternative mechanic for damage reduction during the periods where mastery cannot provide a shield. Obviously avoidance plays into this as well - but avoidance also plays into the factor regarding blood shield too. The more avoidance you have, the less chance that the shield is going to removed via damage.

I think I will bow out here and wait for some solld numbers for EH vs Avoidance to start arriving at this point.

Lichloathe · 01/05/11, 4:44 AM

I won't quote your whole post to save space, but those are excellent points, Deathntaxes. Some of the things that you mention are why I am trying to get enough data to allow BloodSim to simulate specific encounters, as well as magic damage and Lichbornes as you point out.

I think that as a purely general statement, Mastery can probably be safely said to be "better" than avoidance, if only because it is more versatile, though further testing is definitely warranted. Multiple mob situations are also going to be valuable to gather data for and that's also on my to-do list for BloodSim.

But the most important thing that I'm taking away from this discussion is that sacrificing any stat to cap out hit and expertise is not nearly as important as we have previously thought it to be.

Nooska · 01/05/11, 5:04 AM

Originally Posted by Niemandem

Did it ever do it? And btw it doesn't refresh but rather prolong it.

Nevertheless I experienced yesterday in a five man heroic, when you apply the normal sting, on the boss for instance, but later in the fight you multi-shot the boss together with some adds, the sting on the boss doesn't get replaced by the "non-prolongable" serpent spread sting...
So aside from the question if it's intended or not (does anyone know?), I think there are not too many situations where it's a noticeable disadvantage, as long as you don't (have to) open the fight with a multi-shot.

Yes. CoS refreshed the Serpent Spread stings, and that it doesn't now is most likely a bug introduced when they disabled CoS refreshing Wyvern Sting. And CoS does refresh and add 3 seconds - if you hit with a CoS just before a SrS is about to fall off it goes back to full length (+3).

Niemandem · 01/05/11, 5:18 AM

So did it ever work as stated in the tooltip?

[...]increases the duration of your Serpent Sting on the target by 6 sec.[...]

shannon6989 · 01/05/11, 5:42 AM

What are the best totems to place for healing?

Morphex · 01/05/11, 5:55 AM

You might want to start with Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression.