Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1620

Buckaroo · 02/10/11, 2:22 AM

Originally Posted by Cendol

I didnt get it why Blizzard hotfix untested more nerf all of sudden, they are really over doing nerf.

Didnt they test the nerfed at PTR 4.06 for few weeks ?

I agree with DK OP before patch 4.03 but they need to nerf to balance not over doing it....

I think this nerf was totally un-planned due to the haste bug (someone screwed up, didn't test PvP on PTR and we're paying for it). If they have to choose PvE < PvP due to arena ratings.

Codester · 02/10/11, 2:23 AM

Originally Posted by afflic

Following numbers are based of the "relative values" section of this thread.

359 Mirror - 321 int / 1926 Mastery proc (20 seconds / 2 min internal)

321 int's relative value = 1036,7016

321 Mastery's relative value = 394.4127

So the trinket's "relative value" dps wise is 1431.1143.

359 Bell - 321 crit / 1926 spell power proc (20 seconds / 2 min internal). And lets reforge the crit to hit, to give it the maximum value you can give an item (assuming you need hit, it is our best secondary stat).

128 hit's relative value = 314.8416

193 crit's relative value = 268.1928

321 Spell Power's Relative value = 761.0589

So the trinket's "relative value" dps wise is 1344.0933

Basically, Mirror > Bell, unless obviously you have 372 bell and 359 mirror blah blah. Just making a note because I personally was curious, and I thought I would share my findings. Also, DMC:V is our best trinket, considering it's 12 second's of 1600 int, on a 45 sec internal (which comes out to be over 400 int) and it still has mastery which can be reforged to hit. So unless you are in need of hit, I would use Mirror / DMC:V.

There are two problems I see with the logic made here. First, comparing the two trinkets based on relative values is futile. The rest of one's gear could significantly alter the calculations you've made.

Second, you have not accounted for the proc chance of the trinkets. Bell has a 30% proc rate on spell hit (previously on crit, but changed in 4.0.6), whereas Mirror only has a proc chance of 10% on spell hit. This is a non-trivial difference. Given 10 spell casts for instance, the Mirror will activate 65.1% of the time versus 97.2% for the Bell.

shaolinhh · 02/10/11, 2:37 AM

Trinket question here-

If intel stat is so good, why do you choose the bell instead of the miror? same proc, difference is 321 intel and the bell 321 crit, to be reforged anyway so? could rou enlighten me please?

Ty

EMMERICH · 02/10/11, 2:58 AM

I had a chance to try a few encounters as Marksmanship last night, and I wasn't very happy with my performance at all.

I found myself trying to do too much in the rotations, switching from a 'spam AI' through CA to a 'rotate CS and use AI' during the main part of the fight. Eventually I decided to go back to Survival (which, by the way, is still totally capable of being in the mid-to-top percentage of damage done).

I'm probably going to try Marksman again tonight (although I may jump back to Survival or give BM a try for single-target) but won't be able to get used to the rotation until after the weekend when I've had a chance to sit down and go through it.

Anyways, my question was: there's been some talk over the value of Haste in a Marksman rotation, should we be aiming to get enough Haste to hit 4 SS and 1 hard-cast AI in between each CS shot? I think this is 4.4% from gear, 3/3 Pathing and the 4-set bonus as was mentioned before, and then stacking Crit?

I can understand Crit being by far the most powerful stat for us of the 3 secondary stats. I'm just wondering the importance of Haste after the 4/5 SS rotation compared to Mastery.

Navixo · 02/10/11, 3:09 AM

I saw a graph a few pages ago that showed a DPS drop between 12% and 26% hit in the new patch. Is this still the case?

Also any news on the hit "sweet spot" yet?

kahalm · 02/10/11, 3:11 AM

The nerf to Heroic Strike. 27% Hit was needed for a solid rage income which is just not needed anymore.

medivah · 02/10/11, 3:39 AM

Raiding on patch day I found my succabus is doing around 5.5k dps while I'm only doing about 12k, with our haste nurf the 4pc tier set is now something we should all aim for at 359 level.

QQ
I feel demo and locks are fucked in general tbh, this nurf make soul shards even more redundant, Im getting gimped by shadow priests on the meters and I can't even use the pet that my talent tree gives me.

smindal · 02/10/11, 4:09 AM

hi, yesterday i reforged mastery because i only heal in 10man raid and it was really good for my hps. I have just a question, there's a minimum of haste and crit i have to mantein? (i always have a dark intent on me or a wrath of air totem) thank you for your advice

Kimpaan · 02/10/11, 4:19 AM

Yeah well; Hope I don't get banned for this, you get banned for everything on these forums so I prob. will!

I've been playing around with simC some these past days and I noticed once you reach 15 % hit with 4xt11.. crit and haste evens out. Using this profile: chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta

I got these numbers when it comes to scaling;
Intellect SP hit Haste Crit Mastery
2.9917 2.0558 1.5415 1.1070 1.0748 1.0183

So my guess is that once you get 20 % haste raid buffed, crit gets better.. any thoughts? New to this theorycrafting

smallrabbit · 02/10/11, 4:26 AM

If I am right, you are doing 10 men (with a number of total healers = 3), thats what i do too. Therefore I would recommend you the chest from magmaw. Set-chest has worst stats (no spirit but crit) - and mastery (magmaw chest) is your best stat for 10s (after spirit).

Memento · 02/10/11, 4:44 AM

edit: stupid internet

smallrabbit · 02/10/11, 4:45 AM

You dont need any crit, but the haste breakpoints are well known: 534 with 5% haste buff and dark intend for 5th reju tick, or 1593 for 9th Wg tick, according to https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...Hc&hl=en#gid=0

Memento · 02/10/11, 4:59 AM

edit: even stupider internet

Lycania · 02/10/11, 5:37 AM

Originally Posted by aar0n

ok, I am curious why there is no emphasis on expertise when reforging. Also I know I am raiding in alot of heroic gear, but is hit really that important for these reforger tools to want to reforge everything to maximize hit?

Talking about Assassination (because there is ofc emphasis on exp for combat):
Expertise does not apply any benefit to poison damage. As assa is mainly focused on poison damage, exp is of lower interest overall.

Contrary to that, you CAN miss your poison attacks and such HIT rating provides (great) benefit.

Hth

Xai · 02/10/11, 5:42 AM

Originally Posted by Navixo

I saw a graph a few pages ago that showed a DPS drop between 12% and 26% hit in the new patch. Is this still the case?

Also any news on the hit "sweet spot" yet?

If you read further, I believe it is shown that the graph was created with an incorrect equation.