Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1646

martink · 02/15/11, 6:55 PM

From the fire compendium:

Combat Rating relative values shuffle depending on a given character's current stats and gear. Therefore, the most accurate relative values applicable to YOU can be found by using SimulationCraft and Rawr - and importing YOUR character. The general consensus for heroic 372 gear however is: Intellect -> Hit ~= Spellpower -> Haste -> Crit -> Mastery. We suggest that you follow and familise yourself with the latest developments on this topic via resources such as this Fire Compendium thread, the Mage Simulation thread - and via tools such as Rawr and Simulationcraft.

So Rawr suggests you haste > crit on your gear, because of how bad ignite munching is.

Teohetimokan · 02/15/11, 6:59 PM

The frost 2H spec is actually better than DW spec. Anyone who tryed can confirme that.

Bangirasu · 02/15/11, 7:06 PM

I don't really anticipate it to be much better, but is the new proc on Unheeded Warning make it more valuable than it was before? If so, by how much?

Got it a few nights ago and no one wanted it, still trying to figure out if I want it or just toss it in the gbank.

Lopert · 02/15/11, 8:06 PM

Anyone got a copy of Yawnings good bye post?

Battlevixen · 02/15/11, 8:25 PM

First time posting, but have been reading EJ for years. I understand that with the changes to 4.0.6, haste now has much more value than crit. I am wondering though if it is really worth sacrificing that much crit to gain that 2nd tick of Immolate at the 2589 haste threshhold. I am in nearly all 359 gear with the exception of my tier Helm and Shoulders. I would have to sacrifice nearly all crit to get even close to the 2589 threshhold (and still would not acheive it) while maintaining my 1742 hit rating. I could possibly see the threshhold being acheivable in the BiS Heroic gear, but I think you sacrifice too much to try to get it before then. And lets be honest, only the top guilds in the world are even remotely close to BiS heroic gear, which is a very small portion of the people that read these forums.

My point is, I do not see it being effective to stack so much haste, neglecting crit, in tier 11 content until Heroics. I have spent thousands of gold regemming, reforging, and re-enchanting to test all the napkin math on this forum in an actual raid environment. While haste is definately a better stat for us, we still depend on crits to get the high DPS numbers out there as well as allows our Improved Imp to proc more for instant-cast Soulfires. Am I reading into this all wrong?

tangedyn · 02/15/11, 9:50 PM

@Lightflower

I've added a config for Wild Growth Symbiosis Uptime to the spreadsheet, hope that helps.

oramac · 02/15/11, 10:19 PM

ok, im by no means an expert. now that that's out of the way, after reading the section on ignite munching it seems to me that haste would provide far more linear and repeatable DPS than crit. obviously we wouldnt completely ignore crit but if we were able to noticeably increase the number of fireball casts (for example) wouldnt the resulting dps even out the lower crit percentage?

Leafkiller · 02/16/11, 1:04 AM

He posted a copy on the Druid Wik: http://druid.wikispaces.com/message/...ethod/34244832

Mercuryvoid · 02/16/11, 1:58 AM

Originally Posted by Whitefyst

The 30% bleed debuff makes your PS do 39% bonus crit damage instead of 30%. This has always been beneficial for MM, although lower down the chain as compared to other buffs. Now with MM using AI instead of AS as the focus dump, how much AI crits, and the almost guaranteed AI crits during the CA phase, this debuff is quite significant. For my MM hunter, its about a 891 DPS out of 27686 DPS. This is 3.2% of my damage from that debuff, which is considerable.

Here is where each of the non-BM pet buffs/debuffs affect my MM hunter to give you an idea of where it rates for MM hunters (this is the difference of the absence of the buff when all other buffs are present):

Buff/Debuff	Lost Dmg	Percent Loss
Str/Agi	2243	8,10%
5% crit	1567	5.66%
30% bleed	891	3.22%
4% physical	888	3.21%
12% armor	872	3.15%
8% magic	341	1.23%

As can be seen, with how important agi is to us, the Str/Agi buff is by far the most important qand is the one to use soloing. This is followed by 5% crit due to crit being not only a big direct factor in our damage but the other impacts of it on PS, Go for the Throat, Sic'Em, etc. The next three are all bunched together with similar benefits. The last is currently 8% magic since we are no longer using AS as our focus dump.

With that said, you still want to pick the pet buff to provide that provides the biggest benefit for the raid. This could easily be the 8% magic debuff although it is by far the worst for you.

So, I just want to wrap and confirm this, if you have DK or shaman for the str/agi and fury warrior or feral for 5% crit, then Tendon Rip pet is the next best thing to have (for personal DPS view). We usually have other hunter doing survival with his 8% magic pet debuff.

rhesuss · 02/16/11, 2:54 AM

Quick question, why there are only 15.47% hit on the simulation 372 Warlock Destruction instead of 17%. Is this really the BIS simulation?

uhtunbi · 02/16/11, 3:08 AM

Explain me,this breakpoints http://typehforheals.com/wp-content/...ts-671x438.png with raid baffs or no?If no,how more haste i need with baffs and if this breakpoints "with", so what baffs?
PS: without lock baff! thx!

Vøn · 02/16/11, 4:31 AM

I Know is something mad but Have someone Tryed out to Remove Chimera,Remove Arcane Shot , Remove Serpent Sting and just do 2 button rotation....
i know is kind ridiculous but i had the best dps result on the dummy....
Average Dps with 2x Rapidfire = around 25k , 18k Sustained Dps on 5min with my gear

Rotation Was Like : AiS, AiS, Rapidfire,SS,SS,AiS,SS,SS,AiS (on 4 Stack of marksman every time you cast a Steady you push AiS, the result is that you hard cast AiS with no cost in Energy, so you can Cast Another AiS in the Rotation). I'm Not so good in calculation, but after tryed every rotation you posted here, this one i posted here , it resulted for me better than all the others , thats why yesterday i have tryed to drop totally Chimera and marked for death, in favor of daze on multishot talent and rapid killing.
If someone of you good that is good in calculating thing can give a look on it and let me know i will be glad.

Regards

Gada · 02/16/11, 4:42 AM

Originally Posted by Vøn

I Know is something mad but Have someone Tryed out to Remove Chimera,Remove Arcane Shot , Remove Serpent Sting and just do 2 button rotation....
i know is kind ridiculous but i had the best dps result on the dummy....
Average Dps with 2x Rapidfire = around 25k , 18k Sustained Dps on 5min with my gear

Rotation Was Like : AiS, AiS, Rapidfire,SS,SS,AiS,SS,SS,AiS (on 4 Stack of marksman every time you cast a Steady you push AiS, the result is that you hard cast AiS with no cost in Energy, so you can Cast Another AiS in the Rotation). I'm Not so good in calculation, but after tryed every rotation you posted here, this one i posted here , it resulted for me better than all the others , thats why yesterday i have tryed to drop totally Chimera and marked for death, in favor of daze on multishot talent and rapid killing.
If someone of you good that is good in calculating thing can give a look on it and let me know i will be glad.

Regards

a) Target dummy is only good for simming a CA phase, since its always at 100% ( or above 80% health ) in which case, the rotation you mentioned does apply. ( As far as i could understand from your post you didnt pick up Chimera Shot as a talent ? Now thats a first :-)

b) During a CA phase with Rapid Fire, eventually Bloodlust / Heroism it can and will probably yield better results, if you ignore SrS, CS and AS all together. Once they are over though, it is ( or should be) a dps increase to go back to including SrS + CS in your rotation.

c) After Careful Aim phase is over, you should revert back to your normal rotation e.g. including SrS+CS

Vøn · 02/16/11, 4:55 AM

Thanks ,aye i'll try this out, i have only tryed 2 button rotation in heroic istance and i have to say with very good result, but i know in raid situation where you have to move,kite etc its another story..

♦ Seonid · 02/16/11, 5:47 AM

Moved the contents of this post into an 'older' thread Cataclysm Arcane Mage Compendium