Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1647

Mopperkont · 02/16/11, 5:52 AM

Hi,

I'm confused about the hitcap. I've read that with lvl 85 you need about 1746 points to cap it.
But i've got 1032 now and it already states 0,00% 3 levels up. Do i need to keep on speccing it? Or is the limit reached?

Thanks,
Moppert.

♦ Seonid · 02/16/11, 6:04 AM

Reserved for future use due to forum post size limitation.

Foxhoundn · 02/16/11, 6:35 AM

Originally Posted by SmokyBG

The 3% crit multiplier is the same on both gems, and the passive stat increase is already incorporated in the other inputs, so as far as EnhSim is concerned, they are the same gem :-)

Ah ok, now i get it

Thanks for the quick reply

Ishäl · 02/16/11, 6:47 AM

Hit Cap
Hi,

I'm confused about the hitcap. I've read that with lvl 85 you need about 1746 points to cap it.
But i've got 1032 now and it already states 0,00% 3 levels up. Do i need to keep on speccing it? Or is the limit reached?

Thanks,
Moppert.

Hi !

I think you should watch the spell paragraph and not the melee or ranged one.
It should come from this.

Ish.

Tiren_Llane · 02/16/11, 8:15 AM

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the insightful reading. Interesting how things have evolved through the early days of Cata.

I main-swapped to my DK as we had various tank issues and so am only now getting to my hunter.

I've been using FemaleDwarf pretty religiously to drive my gear update and reforging choices... generally what I have found is that FD is valuing haste over mastery (for me).

Do others have this experience? Is there a general value of haste that we should be shooting for? Of course, I am valuing Agi > Hit > Crit first, but then have been confused if Haste > Mastery or Mastery > Haste... or if it depends on what your particular stats are at any given time, e.g. is there a haste "softcap" wherein after you get to it, Mastery > Haste, but before it, Haste > Mastery?

Any quick summary or suggested value (if it is felt that a softcap exists) would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
Tiren
Iron Circle / Llane (US)

Jack_Sparrow_ · 02/16/11, 9:04 AM

Ok, I tried many times to use Kahorie's simulator but I had strange results so, following Consider's guidelines, I simmed my character with simcraft and those are the risults

Imageshack - resultsf.jpg

How can it be possible that haste is better than crit and Mastery to be our worst stat???

I tried to stack as much haste as I can and this is the risult

Imageshack - stackinghaste.jpg

Honestly I don't understand how mastery seems to be ALWAYS our worst stat...

Dithon1 · 02/16/11, 9:25 AM

I've never like using the Succubus. I prefer the Felhunter due to the Demon Soul buff, since I use Drain Life as a Filler instead of Shadowbolt. Is this such a huge DPS loss that I should drop everything and switch to the Succ, or am I just fine where I am?

advocates · 02/16/11, 9:35 AM

Forgive my ignorance, but I was wondering if there is any particular profession which I should pick to improve my rogue ? Much appreciated.

angaroth · 02/16/11, 9:59 AM

The DPS difference is glaringly huge, Dithon1. So yes. Unless you don't have a mage for Arcane Brilliance. Then it becomes messy.

mkultra55 · 02/16/11, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu

The first heal to land is only the most important IF it saved someones life. If no damage follows directly after, then it's only as good as the average of all heals between starting to heal a target and the next wave of damage. This isn't fidgeting with numbers, as you claim, this is how things work in reality.

And the triage model is a fundamentally un-challenging one. It's something that barely exists in normal raids, and by the time you hit heroic raids, it's completely gone. So discussing triage healing as if it had any merit or worth what so ever is a complete waste of time, because it doesn't. A model which is inherently prone to out-gearing and where in you have ample time to make decisions just won't ever be even remotely challenging, and that's why on the content that matters, i.e. heroic raids, we're going to be stuck with the same model for raid damage and healing as we had in TBC/WotLK.

I agree for the most part and what you mention is another reason why I continue to waffle on the Mastery issue. I worry about the end of each Tier when gear means players will rarely (hopefully) be sitting at low health. I do agree that the Triage model you describe wouldn't work but I'm coming to the conclusion that when GC talked of Triage he meant damage would look more like a sine curve as opposed to the continuous damage of ICC.

I do think the argument about the "first" heal could also be made about Haste however. I agree that you can never know if a player at 10% health is about to die but in that instance I value Mastery much higher than Haste since my choice of heals at that moment (GHW or HS) will already be Hasted via TW and the ability to get someone from 10% to 60% in one heal (very likely with the new GHW) is preferable to shaving a tenth of a second off of said spells. If they weren't about to die than neither Haste nor Mastery has an impact so it's wrong to use that as an argument.

Just about every log shows HR, CH and ELW as our top heals followed usually by Riptide. Other than the Haste points for extra HoT tics Haste has zero impact on three of those top four spells. Mastery doesn't effect the RT HoT or ELW but it does boost HR, RT's direct heal and CH. Haste impacts our other direct heals but because of Tidal Waves it's value isn't as strong. The main benefit of Haste is it's impact on Chain Heal which is still very important to us and has a huge impact on the effectiveness of the spell.

mkultra55 · 02/16/11, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Aiel

When you add 100 haste rating to GHW, HW, HS, HR/tick* and RT-direct heal , their HPS will increase by 0.68%.
When you add 100 mastery rating, their HPS will increase by 0.16% @90% hp and up to 1.043% @1 hp.
At ~46% HP haste and mastery will result in the same HPS increase.

In 25s about 30-35% of my healing won't benefit from mastery (HST,ES, RT-HoT and ELW) but all of my healing benefits from haste, even though haste will only reduce the gcd of HST and ES.

* think of it like a series of mini CoHs with a cast time of X seconds per tick

Once you reach the various HoT cutoff points Haste no longer effects ELW, RT HoT or HR so saying Haste effects these spells is not being completely honest. Basically after the cutoff neither Haste nor Mastery effect those heals other than HR which does work off of Mastery.

You also disregard the fact that Mastery increases the HPM of all of our direct heals and HR even at high health levels for the target which is still an issue for Resto Shammies.

amumu · 02/16/11, 10:25 AM

Anyone know of a dps spread sheet campatible with 4.0.6 for dps?

Aiel · 02/16/11, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by mkultra55

Once you reach the various HoT cutoff points Haste no longer effects ELW, RT HoT or HR so saying Haste effects these spells is not being completely honest. Basically after the cutoff neither Haste nor Mastery effect those heals other than HR which does work off of Mastery.

You also disregard the fact that Mastery increases the HPM of all of our direct heals and HR even at high health levels for the target which is still an issue for Resto Shammies.

HR, RT and ELW will still tick faster with every point of haste

Mynou · 02/16/11, 10:37 AM

Maybe Simcraft sucks for DKs?

Imlach · 02/16/11, 10:38 AM

I'm seeing strange behaviour from the optimizer, whereby it chooses to gear for hit rating rather than gem for it, but results in a lower score.

In all cases here, I'm running the optimizer with the additional requirement of Hit Rating >= 1742.

I was previously using [Anhuur's Hymnal] but I now have two ilvl 359 trinkets. If I make the Hymnal unavailable, the optimizer gems for hit rating. If I make the Hymnal available, the optimizer equips it over [Heart of Ignacious] and gems for int. See below for the end result:

I don't know if there's something funky going on, or if that's expected behaviour somehow, so I thought I'd report it in case it's an issue that needs attention.