Been lurking around here for a while reading up on what I can to squeeze every little bit out of my toon. All the info im finding is about SMF instead of TG for fury. I'm kinda stuck right now with TG and it seems like I'im missing something.

I've tried the high hit and low hit and found that there is 2 totally different rotations. Now I'm not sure if this goes for SMF or not btu I have found that with a high hit build you can be pretty liberal wiht HS instead of the low hit where your rotation is based more on RB. With both builds using both rotations I'm pulling about the same dps, give or take 20-40. I've only gotten to run BH and a few shots at Magmaw but I for some reason can't get past that 13k mark. I'll burst for a bit over that but at the end I'm still sitting around that mark. Can the all mighty wisdom of EJ help? I appreciate this in advance.

Armory: Skuby @ Madoran - Game - World of Warcraft

In the limiting case, Marksmen can fire MS twice as often as SV, so from that perspective it makes sense to buff the base damage; in theory it could help MM up to twice as much as SV.

Also, since my previous comment was deleted: The 4.1.0 patch notes say:

I believe this brings the damage to 192.5% of weapon damage, rather than the 118% reported by MMOC.

My back-of-the-envelope math shows that Bombardment still cannot exceed MS + Serpent Spread for damage on non-primary targets, though, in a focus-limited situation.

How would you suggest balancing spirit and intelligence?

My goal is to demonstrate the BiS stat differences in sacrificing to get 9th tick of Wild Growth. Right now I'm geared for mastery and 915 haste. However, I'm thinking about changing my gear to 2004 haste for 4.1. The differences to get there seem pretty high to me. Probably not the best method to compare 915 vs 2004 gearing but are the differences below what I can expect to give up to go with 2004? And is it worth it?


Stat Values----------Intellect---Spirit-----------------Haste------------------Mastery
22% without buff--------99-------90-----100 to a cap of 22% then 0---------75
12.5% without buff-----100------90-------76 to a cap of 13% then 60-------75


Stat Results----------Intellect------Spirit----Haste-------Mastery
22% without buff-------5954-------2322----21.99%------12.16%
12.5% without buff-----6129-------2502----13.08%------16.38%
Difference-----------175-------180----8.91%-----4.21%


Mr Robot Links
22% without buff link

12.5% without buff link

Love the discussions and thanks for the feedback.

Is this still true now that it would appear the bug has been figured out? Also it would seem the debate as to stacking hit for DW has come to an end. But, after reading this past few post I am now hearing a shift in power of haste in stat weight due to unholy pres dw? And if the 500 dps gain is true at 372 where does this put it at avg 359 ilvl? It would appear it still lags behind or is now even to 2h Unholy so should the break down now be 2hUnholy=DWfrost>2h Frost? After simming the results myself however I did not find the results to be the same as others mentioned before I still find dw frost to be top dps at the 372 model when ran in Frost press by about +/- 400 dps.

Considering Echo of light is basically a healing version of a mages ignite, has any testing or thought been given to the possibility of munching? It's a hot topic at the moment for mages and just wondered if there could be a possibility for a Greater Heal critical followed directly by, say a Holy Word: Serenity non critical to overwrite? or for one of the critical to not be added to the HoT?

I just killed malygos 10, with a shaman elem.

I had a Wowhead talent calculator : modified MM spec (but I assume a regular one will be ok) with a full tank-specced turtle, no 2T5.

In p1 shaman just heal himself & dps sparks, since aggro from pet is completely reset with vortex he can't dps malygos.
When malygos reach ~65% cast BL & full dps (even the sham this time), it will be enough to go to the p2.

Normal p2, don't take hovercraft, since your pet will vanish (I didn't change my turtle to a cat or wolf, but it'll be good I think)

p3 I just dps at 3cp, without shield. My mate did all the healing stuff and almost no dps.

*Gear question*
Hey with the new mastery change regarding mastery (Now effects all heals instead of only direct heals, i.e healing rain and earthliving). Atm I personally prefer to use the Halfus heroic head as a set breaker and using the tier chest for the 4 set, and also reforging all mastery/crit to haste just because haste is our best secondary stat. I now have the question weather it would be worth switching to the Tier head and getting the Omnomnomtron heroic chest. This gives for 1 gives more mastery (if its worth it with the change) and more spirit as the best set piece atm doesnt have spirit .

I feel that the new mastery change would be worth it in many cases. For example most fight mechanics people will drop low and will trigger earthliving (via the talent in deep resto) or just by using steady heals and chain heals keep earthliving on 5-10 targets. So to sum it up, since keeping up healing rain during intense aoe fights with a good amount of mastery and rolling earthliving on a good amount of people, is it worth it to have Haste and Mastery be on the same stat prio on gear and using the omnomtron HC chest as a set breaker.

My shaman if you are interested in how I gem/reforge and such : Handegg @ Dragonmaw - Game - World of Warcraft

I mostly raid as a tank, but felt I needed to sort out my dps kit a bit better. With different sources saying different things, I was trying to test for myself on target dummies which of frost and unholy presence is the best. I only did a few trials in each presence, and both presences had numbers varying between 10k and 14k on different trials, but with the difference between the presences hidden in the large variation from try to try. Neither presence did consistently better than the other.

SimC 406-9 simulated my frost presence dps as 10k, and unholy as 13k. I've tried version 406-11 now, and it's giving 10.4k and 10.2k (unbuffed, to be able to compare with the target dummy results).

My gut feeling is that there shouldn't be a 3k difference, as I should have done better in unholy presence most of the time on the dummies in that case, so the new version seems better. It's hard to really tell, though. And there's the possibility I hit abilities in a too slow a pace, as I'm used to the frost presence pace.


One of my tries in unholy presence had nice cyclic behaviour. I used up all the runes first, and gained most of a bar of runic power. Then I did frost strikes with that runic power, and gained a few extra runes back. Those and the regenerated ones were enough to do a few more strikes, and get most of a bar of runic power. The next set of frost strikes gave me runes back, and so on. I ended up not having any "wait time" at all, even though I was in unholy presence. Not all tries were that lucky, though. (I do think it is better to interleave rune strikes and frost strikes, so that you have a FU pair available most of the time, in case of a KM proc.)

I could really benefit from an in depth explanation of the pros and cons of the T11 set, as right now I am having a hard time understanding the real benefits. I guess I should clarify - the two piece bonus seems okay - since Serpent Sting is always up. But I'm having the darndest time trying to figure out how reducing the CD of Steady Shot/Cobra Shot by .2 seconds is a big dps boost. I play as SV main spec and BM OS, but I often raid as BM since my group often needs the 3% damage buff, and there I guess I can see that you can squeeze in a few more AS, but is that big a deal? And with everybody saying that it's virtually impossible to get to the point where you can get an extra CS in between ES in SV, I can't see what the benefit of the 4-piece really is. I would really love a detailed explanation of why it is or is not awesome from somebody. Thanks.

I have been playing around w this new stat weights you just posted.. I averaged bout 14k but was suprised to find my main source of dmg was 28 percent for oblit, 25 percent melee, and 20 percent oblit off hand.. Perhaps from waiting to KM Oblit but i thot that frost strike as mentioned would be higher percentage as well... Due to DW favoring mastery.