Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 169

Uthengel · 02/15/09, 9:03 AM

Bought it
Tested it.
Laughing hard each time it procs

That was great. Thanks for the tip.
Might aswell look for the Embrace of the spider just in case they fix, which with my luck, should be soon.

klüger · 02/15/09, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Sharajat

Mechanically, this is nearly the exact opposite of the old version (where healing could take place at any time, but at a really slow rate). The reason is that the original loatheb was a logistics fight, and Blizzard seems to have decided that logistics fights are stupid as all hell (much to our relief).

Well, loatheb 40 meant cascading heals. As when you cast one healspell you got a X second cooldown on all your healingspells. So you cascaded the raidhealers healing so you had heals landing constantly.

That and it was hell to farm the amount of sr pots needed, but thats a totally different story :p

caljente · 02/15/09, 11:45 AM

tested it with embrace of the spider, hey it does stack

Malleus · 02/15/09, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Sharajat

Loathab is the only boss in Naxx that I've never seen a wipe on, outside of Noth (can you even wipe on Noth? Is it mechanically possible?)

Yep - first time we tried Noth, we had no idea what we were doing and AOEd down the adds while Noth was on the floor. Of course the Mages ran out of mana very quickly and we were overwhelmed in P2.

Loatheb, OTOH, I don't believe it's possible to wipe on so long your healers know what the aura does. I've heard of it happening, though.

Atallicus · 02/15/09, 3:29 PM

Originally Posted by Kaubel

Look, folks, it's not difficult. If you can't somehow include a list of add-ons, separately or within your UI screen-shot under the guise of memory allocation, then don't fucking post in this thread. And no, it doesn't matter if you've posted here before. You're not going to force people to dig around looking for your previous screenshots.

So if you see a post of yours missing, it's because you used a shitty image host or you didn't include a list of mods. The latter group is lucky I felt lazy this morning, because it was easier for me to clean up the mess by deleting posts rather than giving out multiple infractions.

-edit-
Good lord, it's worse than I thought. You Euros are killing me. I'll wait a day to see if your screens come back to life before I start a thread holocaust. In the meantime, why don't you guys consider becoming a benefactor? Free hosting.

Normally I don't say anything about posts like these, but this time I'm going to. The unfortunate demise of HDimage is not in any way our fault, nor was it a "crappy" image host. You expect us to use proper language and punctuation, but you feel that swearing about everything and being rude is okay too. I'm pretty sure I'm probably going to see a ban for this post, but to the best of my ability I wrote it to sound as least rude as possible.

The people who post in these threads are real people. Just because it's the internet doesn't mean that treating people like cockroaches is okay. I can understand deleting posts of people who don't follow the rules. I've seen many of stupid infractions given out just because you just feel like it that day. Everyone here seems to just think that's okay. I'm not a sheep, and I don't think it's okay.

Janathema · 02/15/09, 4:49 PM

My gear's just missing the cloak and trinket of Sartharion and waist I'd take the cloth one of Thaddius.
Enoya

WWS of our Patchwerk Kill tonite.
WWS

Ja7us · 02/15/09, 6:29 PM

We wiped on Loatheb the first time we pulled in 10-man - they key is to lock some of your raid outside the door (It comes down immediately, not a few seconds later like many boss' doors).

wowconomics · 02/17/09, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by droeber

I reached a breaking point with Inscription this past week. As recommended by this thread, I keep one of every Major glyph that I've discovered on the AH at all times. I don't bother with Minor glyphs or trainer glyphs. The Majors go for about 40g on average, with some of the really good ones like Vigor and Obliterate going for 70g. I sell 5 or 6 glyphs a day, and that's on a low pop server. The cheapest herbs are 30g a stack, and one stack results in 3 or 4 glyphs. Herbalism just isn't worth my time anymore.

IMO Save your Inks etc. for the duel spec patch. There will be a rush for glyphs then. (and you save your time from listing and relisting now) and prices should jump a little due to increased demand.

Originally Posted by Enova

Alchemy really isn't that big of a money maker anymore. On my server, flasks sometimes even sell for less than the herb costs. This has made selling herbs very profitable for me. And while some of the best selling alchemists buy whole stacks of my auctions, the average guy who just wants mats so a friend can make a flask for him is more than happy to buy the herbs split in the exact size he needs, even at a higher price. Why? Because it's more convenient.

You can sometimes get 30% or so more than you would otherwise get for listing the same herbs in full stacks.

I usually have the herbs on a snatch list of my auctioneer, and pick them up when they are cheap. I then compare herb prices and flask prices before raid times 9roughly 2 hours before common raid times) and list the flasks then. I sell all of them within hours and make some profit. Its minor compared to BC though.

I have actually had more profit made form BC flasks right now. I can usually craft them for about 10g and they sell for 20g+ (especially relentless assault)

Originally Posted by astearns

And check the AH for BC blue gems listed under the vendor price. Since they really aren't needed for JC levelling any more, I'm assuming the Adamantite prospectors are just dumping them without paying attention to the vendor value.

I routinely purchase BC rare gems (and forest emeralds) for vendoring. One thing to keep in mind is for some (specifically the forest emerald) the cut version vendors for more gold.

Wakeman · 02/21/09, 6:56 AM

Originally Posted by Shadai

MITIGATION AND DEFENSE

Defense cap

The defense cap is actually misnomer. Its not really a cap at all, merely the amount of defense you need to push boss crits off the table. There is no “cap” to defense, but the defense “cap” commonly refers to this number that makes you uncrittable.

There are two numbers that are important, Defense Skill and Defense Rating:

Defense Rating is what you will commonly find on gear. 4.91850 defense rating equals one point of defense skill.
Defense Skill is the number found on your character sheet. A level 80 character without any additional Defense Rating has 400 Defense Skill.

The number you’re shooting for to become uncrittable is 540 defense SKILL.

Note that’s 540 skill, not rating. You need about 690 rating (at level 80) to hit that from the 400 defense skill a level 80 character will have.

However you get your skill is up to you. Gear is easily obtainable between instances and crafting gear. If you got some spare sockets, use [Thick Autumn's Glow] to help obtain the cap. If you only need a few more points, there are several good gems that add 8 defense and another stat.

Defense will also add to avoidance. See the Avoidance section below.

Can we stop saying defense cap? I think most people know this is a misnomer (even the OP mentioned this!), and a very misleading one. It makes new tanks think that any defense higher than 540 is useless, which is false. This term was probably invented by DPSers, who have hit cap. Indeed, any hit in excess of hit cap is useless, so hit cap is a totally correct term.

All along during TBC, we use the terms "uncrittable" or "crit immune", which are very good terms indicating that you cannot be critically hit by the boss. Most long-time tanks are still sticking to the term uncritable. I don't know why I see so many "defense cap" in the forum now, including the stickies.

Griefknight · 02/21/09, 9:05 AM

Originally Posted by Wakeman

Can we stop saying defense cap? I think most people know this is a misnomer (even the OP mentioned this!), and a very misleading one. It makes new tanks think that any defense higher than 540 is useless, which is false. This term was probably invented by DPSers, who have hit cap. Indeed, any hit in excess of hit cap is useless, so hit cap is a totally correct term.

All along during TBC, we use the terms "uncritable" or "crit immune", which are very good terms indicating that you cannot be critically hit by the boss. Most long-time tanks are still sticking to the term uncritable. I don't know why I see so many "defense cap" in the forum now, including the stickies.

I don't know where you were in TBC or in WoTLK right now but it is much easier to say 540 is the defense cap. I realize that means you can not go past 540 defense even though you can but why would you want to at this point? I highly doubt new tanks will find a real reason to go beyond 540 defense. This is the same as hit cap, a point where using said stat doesn't effect the user by a noticeable margin. You can always go behind 8% hit for the 17% miss immune(?) amount and obviously going beyond 17% is useless unless all of Ulduar lowers your chance to hit for whatever reason. I'm just saying that there is no reason to say 540 is crit immune, unless you can prove to me that going beyond 540 defense is something we all may want to do. I mean by this that in the DPS way of life you would say 8% is hit cap because its almost pointless to go beyond 8%, the same should apply to defense.

The big picture on hit is that a large portion of your attacks (special melee) don't miss, seeing as how the largest portion of Death Knight DPS is special melee we don't want to waste sockets or use sub-par gear going for 17%.
The big picture on defense is that no attacks can hit you critically which will most likely kill you, leading to a wipe and adding downtime to your raid. What does adding more defense do for a tank? Increase your chance to avoid an attack by a small amount? You could use 16 dodge gems and receive better results if you really wanted to stack avoidance.

Bohica · 02/21/09, 1:30 PM

Has anyone actually tried Mortal Strike + Bloodthirst yet?
This is the build I was thinking of, mainly based on arms rotations because of less immediately available fury talents. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
My main dilema is whether or not MS and BT share the same cooldown. Thoughts?

huntcaudata · 02/21/09, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by Griefknight

I don't know where you were in TBC or in WoTLK right now but it is much easier to say 540 is the defense cap. I realize that means you can not go past 540 defense even though you can but why would you want to at this point? I highly doubt new tanks will find a real reason to go beyond 540 defense. This is the same as hit cap, a point where using said stat doesn't effect the user by a noticeable margin. You can always go behind 8% hit for the 17% miss immune(?) amount and obviously going beyond 17% is useless unless all of Ulduar lowers your chance to hit for whatever reason. I'm just saying that there is no reason to say 540 is crit immune, unless you can prove to me that going beyond 540 defense is something we all may want to do. I mean by this that in the DPS way of life you would say 8% is hit cap because its almost pointless to go beyond 8%, the same should apply to defense.

The big picture on hit is that a large portion of your attacks (special melee) don't miss, seeing as how the largest portion of Death Knight DPS is special melee we don't want to waste sockets or use sub-par gear going for 17%.
The big picture on defense is that no attacks can hit you critically which will most likely kill you, leading to a wipe and adding downtime to your raid. What does adding more defense do for a tank? Increase your chance to avoid an attack by a small amount? You could use 16 dodge gems and receive better results if you really wanted to stack avoidance.

I know I've seen your user name on the board multiple times, so I can only conclude that you're a complete idiot. Defense is avoidance. Yes, it is less avoidance than dodge per rating point, but that in no way implies that 540 is the cap for avoidance. Defense has other benefits as well, it increases the amount mitigated by Icebound Fortitude. That alone could cause players to value it over dodge. Even if you only value straight avoidance, though, you could easily find yourself over 540 defense and be happy about it due to particular drops or itemization.

540 is not a cap, and everyone that has done any sort of analysis knows this.

Griefknight · 02/21/09, 2:23 PM

Originally Posted by huntcaudata

I know I've seen your user name on the board multiple times, so I can only conclude that you're a complete idiot. Defense is avoidance. Yes, it is less avoidance than dodge per rating point, but that in no way implies that 540 is the cap for avoidance. Defense has other benefits as well, it increases the amount mitigated by Icebound Fortitude. That alone could cause players to value it over dodge. Even if you only value straight avoidance, though, you could easily find yourself over 540 defense and be happy about it due to particular drops or itemization.

540 is not a cap, and everyone that has done any sort of analysis knows this.

The only reason you would intentionally go beyond 540 defense is to improve the amount of mitigation IBF grants you, improving the mitigation of a 12-21 second duration of a one minute cooldown is not worth it, plain and simple. You would then look at the second reason to increase your defense beyond 540, avoidance, we both stated that dodge just much more avoidance then defense will so that is obviously out of the question too.

This is the reason I, and like many others, refer to 540 defense as the cap. This is a rather pointless argument and doesn't require insults to discuss.

volcarr · 02/21/09, 3:37 PM

Originally Posted by Furrymaker

After playing as both arms and fury it really seems the four set bonus is far more valuable for arms where rage is much harder to come by and all GCDs must be utilized. It's nice for fury but I'll drop it in a heart beat for best in slot items once our hunters and rogues already have them. Personally I wouldn't drop the four set bonus for the items you've mentioned but I would for the blue aspect helm, frost adroit handguards, and chestguard of the recluse. At a quick glance at a recent wws it looks like the four set bonus procs about an average of eight times in a three minute fight. Not a tremendous amount of rage saved but slightly helpful none the less, sort of like unbridled wrath, not much of a dps incease.

yea thats what i thought but i wanted to be positive. but you will have to explain to me why blue aspect helm over obsidean greathelm.

OS helm

98 strength =196 AP
76 crit rating
59 expertise

meta
and another socket (same as blue aspect helm)

socket bonus = 8 strength = 16 AP

overall being 212 AP

Blue Aspect helm

202 AP
58 crit rating
51 haste

+58 agility = not sure how much crit rating O_O

metal
and another socket (same)

+4 haste rating socket bonus

gems arent a problem for me as i am a JC so 27 strength gem will be what i use.

i cant see how it is possible that blue aspect helm > Obsidean greathelm

i havent even talked about armor that will increase attack power due to ATT or the fact that it has 106 strength on it total not including the gems which will be effected by kings in a raid giving you more AP.

obsidean greathelm = more AP/strength and more expertise
blue aspect helm = more crit and haste

i realize thats not full caclculations but just the rough idea really seems to convince me.

Goetterdaemmerung · 02/21/09, 4:56 PM

Originally Posted by Griefknight

The only reason you would intentionally go beyond 540 defense is to improve the amount of mitigation IBF grants you, improving the mitigation of a 12-21 second duration of a one minute cooldown is not worth it, plain and simple. You would then look at the second reason to increase your defense beyond 540, avoidance, we both stated that dodge just much more avoidance then defense will so that is obviously out of the question too.

This is the reason I, and like many others, refer to 540 defense as the cap. This is a rather pointless argument and doesn't require insults to discuss.

It's hard to agree with either of those points.

It is foolish to dismiss improving mitigation of a buff that can have a > 1/3 uptime. What you are naively assuming may in fact be accurate, but actual analysis is needed, not handwavy dismissals.

Dodge does provide more avoidance than defense, but as defense provides more avoidance than parry (to put things into perspective), you should again please provide some actual analysis (including: how the two stats are affected differently by diminishing returns) rather than this "obviously out of the question" handwaving.

It doesn't require insults, but it does require actual analysis, please. If that has already been done, you could even provide a link (for my education!).