Originally Posted by Hamlet

Yeah, looks like you can no longer manually cancel Lunar Shower on live.

The LS discussion is interesting. I've been maintaining that the new drawback isn't so bad. If the pre-Solar issue were fixed, it may still be more helpful than hurtful. But what I'm realizing reading posts more is that the benefit of LS just isn't that great to begin with.

Maybe we should have thought about this more even before 4.2, but you don't move for 3+ consecutive seconds all that often. LS seemed like a really big deal in beta since were imagining running around while still doing decent DPS and it sounded great, but the reality is that in raid content we work pretty hard to avoid moving that much. Each 3-stack Moonfire only gets about 5000 damage from the LS talent, and if you only do that a couple times in a fight, then it's just not very much. I mean, to even live up to the 1%/point rubric for DPS talents, you have to get almost 1000 DPS from Lunar Shower, and that requires making use of it almost every 5 seconds, which pretty much never happens.

Last tier we didn't think about this too hard, since there was nowhere good to put the points anyway, and there were fights like Maloriak/Atramedes/Council where you clearly wanted it. But now that the talent does have a drawback, and we make use of Gale Winds more often, and Owlkin Frenzy might be better filler anyway, I can understand the eagerness to drop it a bit more. It just doesn't really add much damage except for certain specific fights where you have to move quite a lot (so far, maybe Ragnaros).

In short--we took LS last tier because there was no reason not to, but it's kind of a crutch in some ways. We should be practicing encounters so as to minimize movement anyway, and when we do have to move, the damage we get from LS is usually not even that impressive. After thinking about this more, I can see coming around to people who are dropping the talent. It has less to do with the energy drawback and just as much to do with it not being all that strong to begin with.

Originally Posted by Videl

I think you nailed the fundamental problem qae. The eclipse swing is just way too big and AE is way too dependent on solar eclipse, plus it takes way too long to come back around to it once you leave. There are a few solutions I can think of, but they're not worth belaboring and all require a pretty significant change to how we use eclipse.