Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1798

parabad · 07/12/11, 2:29 AM

Originally Posted by Uthaa

did someone do calculations for early heroic weapons vs non heroic Sulfuras?

Using my current gear set and and exemplar's spreadsheet with modified values for the trinkets in live, I'm finding normal sulfuras to be considerably better than both heroic weapons. Order being H Sulfuras > Sulfuras > H Zoid's > H Skullstealer. The normal versions of the last 2 weapons not being better than H Ashkandi. The picture may be different with your gear and I suggest running some personal numbers.

Anexus · 07/12/11, 2:45 AM

Personally I prefer to go for spirit > haste > crit > mastery. At least until I reach 1860 haste rating (for the 14th holy radiance tick). After that I am really unsure. I didnt check the new gear yet so I dont know when I will reach this amount of haste. The 15th holy radiance tick is very far off (at 2946 rating), but haste is still valuable. Question is whether it is more valuable than crit or mastery. Any opinions?

Valestik · 07/12/11, 2:49 AM

Would being above 601 hit and closer to 820 hit (spell hit cap) with that setup really be all that bad?

Sophkel · 07/12/11, 3:16 AM

Wondering on what values (haste v crit v mastery) mages in heroic firelands are actually valuing? Also what is the affect of Shard of Woe's /use on these values?

Kinmaul · 07/12/11, 5:00 AM

Originally Posted by parabad

Using my current gear set and and exemplar's spreadsheet with modified values for the trinkets in live, I'm finding normal sulfuras to be considerably better than both heroic weapons. Order being H Sulfuras > Sulfuras > H Zoid's > H Skullstealer. The normal versions of the last 2 weapons not being better than H Ashkandi. The picture may be different with your gear and I suggest running some personal numbers.

Your ranking is correct, but don't forget that H Zoid's and H Skullstealer are are both massive upgrades over anything from t11 heroic mode and t12 normal mode weapons. I wouldn't pass on those in hopes of a Sulfuras that may or may not drop. Exemplars spread sheet is showing me -currently using a 378 Zoid's- a dps gain of ~1,100 dps from H Zoid's/H Skullstealer (Zoid's being slightly more and Skullstealer being slightly less). Normal Sulfurus is superior to both, but only by ~200 dps. A nice upgrade to be sure, but don't pass a 1,100 dps upgrade in hopes of a 1,300 dps upgrade dropping later.

Those numbers will vary some based on your specific gear, but those should be close for most Ret paladins.

Gnomil · 07/12/11, 5:11 AM

So been unlucky with drops before Firelands and i do not have a heroic mainhand but i have been more fortunate in FL.
I got 2 x Entrail Disgorger but no 1.8 MH so far. I am thinking about using 2 x 1.4speed weps until a 1.8wep dropps.
My old mainhand wep is Organic Lifeform Inverter(normal).
I see Entrail Disgorger like a upgrade but my spreadsheet says that its a -20 dps when i have it equiped in which i dont agree with. I do know that my instand poison dmg is lowered (very little) but the +31 mastery and the higher dps on the wep seams like in a overall fight that my dps should go up.
Also, the pure dmg coming from the dagger is basicly the same as the Organic but what i am wondering is if the instant poison is being affected by a faster MH wep.
Anyone have the same thoughts?

Tecron · 07/12/11, 5:53 AM

Hi there.
Maybe It is written somewhere here, but I havent found it.

I"ve been wondering. I have 4xT11(3 heroic - helm, gloves, chest) and my question is, when it would be worth of loosing 4T11 set bonus for 2T12 set bonus. I did some research in Rawr and SimC, and both are showing me, that breaking 4T11 bonus with 2T12 (non heroic) is not an dps increase. But still I see some good mages going for that 2xT12 bonus with normal set items.

I assume it would be worth of it when I would have enough haste from Firelands gear, that I would easily get haste soft cap.

Another question. Is it worth of going for 4xT12 bonus? becuase somewhere they write that its minor dps boost and non-set items are bigger dps increase then bonus. But in BiS lists by Swizzle on MMO, he took up 4xT12 instead of these non-set items. so how is it?

Thanks for answers

Edit:Swizzle wrote

I think you have the right math on the mana savings, but I guess that, coupled with the itemization on those pieces of tier, the 4-piece DPS gain outweighs the DPS from the other item's stats. Just looking over the pieces, the stats seem really close, except 4-piece has more Hit and more Haste, which are the top two stats for Arcane right now. Due to that and the minimal gain from the set-bonus 4-piece beats out 2-piece with off-set gear.

and it looks like true :-)

and one more question, How much haste rating is soft cap with raid buffs and 4T11 set bonus?

Deamp · 07/12/11, 9:38 AM

thanks to Morthiras for the rawr profiles
done some simulations with ur profiles with more Iterations (10000) and other fight length
its my first time doing some simulations with sumulationcraft hope there are no mistakes in it
enjoy it

DTR=Legendary
MAX= some other trinkets
SoW= Shard of Woe

Patchwerk Fight:

240-360sec fight:
Simulationcraft Results

400-500sec fight:
Simulationcraft Results

HelterSkelter Fight:

240-360sec fight:
Simulationcraft Results

400-500sec fight:
Simulationcraft Results

zabuzan · 07/12/11, 9:53 AM

Been using the EJ thread for Ret stuff for years, finally decided to make my first post!

So, I'm sitting at somewhere in the region of 45 Expertise pre reforging and with the GoSoT. Post reforge, the best I can get it down to is 34.

What I'm thinking is that it will surely be a net dps increase to reforge to 36 and swap GoSoT for GoCS. This means I'm expertise capped for both SoT and SoR, without GoSoT. It also means I get the dps increase of GoCS.

My other option, is to drop the Heart of Rage trinket I got the other day and go back to Darkmoon Card: Hurricaine. This puts me back at a level where I can reforge to around 27 if memory serves.

That said, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter too much. I've just started my own guild and Firelands will be incoming within the next week or 2, so no doubt I'll be swapping gear out left right and centre in no time

krazykr0w · 07/12/11, 10:58 AM

It appears via patch 4.2 Destro has taken a bit of gimping. Has anyone been able to improve their dps since the patch
and if so maybe you could explain your new rotation or approach to the issue most of us seem to be having???

Ylle · 07/12/11, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by krazykr0w

It appears via patch 4.2 Destro has taken a bit of gimping. Has anyone been able to improve their dps since the patch
and if so maybe you could explain your new rotation or approach to the issue most of us seem to be having???

It seems so yes... According to new sims, destro is now the worst DPS spec for locks, with a DPS loss of about 2000 compared to pre 4.2

It saddens me tbh

I hate affliction, so boring, and so is demo

Verethy · 07/12/11, 11:28 AM

I still keep my pet on Passive all the time, with a /petattack macro in place.
The other stances cause to many issues. Yet I have not noticed the DPS decrease that is mentioned. Are you sure it isn't something as simple as trying the new stance/gearing?

kardacz · 07/12/11, 12:05 PM

Myself:
Damage done on Amount
Spark of Rhyolith 2402785 29.6 %
Right Foot 1607353 19.8 %
Left Foot 1376460 16.9 %

Felhunter:
Right Foot 555264 58.1 %
Left Foot 238654 25.0 %
Lord Rhyolith 161717 16.9 %

Ebon Imp:
Left Foot 8222 100.0 %

Yes there is a damage reduction buff. But i assume that the less stacks there are on the boss, the more damage you need to do to turn him, if it works that way.

As far as i noticed it's very easy to turn him at the start of the fight when everyone is smacking his legs.
Additionally there was a blue post about it some time ago:
"Lord Rhyolith
Lord Rhyolith can now be quickly snapped from left to right, or right to left, if the appropriate amount of damage is dealt to the opposite foot."

wyrmsbane · 07/12/11, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Ataxus

I originally posted this on the official Damage Dealing forums, hoping it might catch Blizzard's eye. I'm also posting it here for discussion and hopefully some more math on the actual dps increase granted by this bonus.

Definitions:
Tier 12 Mage 4-Piece:

Arcane Power:

Leading to...
Arcane Power with Tier 12 4-Piece:
When activated, you deal 20% more spell damage but spells cost 10% less mana to cast. This effect lasts 15 sec.

The Problem:
This bonus appears to be a great boon to Arcane Mages' mana pools during Arcane Power. Upon further inspection, however, the math of both Arcane Power and this bonus are misleading. I'd like to shed light on this issue for both Blizzard and the community.

Base Arcane Blast Mana cost: 870
10% savings of 870 = 87 Mana cost reduction

This is 87 Mana cost reduction for every Arcane Blast, regardless of stack number! It is applied after stacking mana cost from Arcane Blast debuff. Arcane Power works the same way, but increases spell costs instead of decreasing them, like the set bonus does. The net effect of the set bonus is two of these mana cost reductions: 1) 10% mana reduction and 2) removal of the 10% mana increase from Arcane Power.

Total Mana savings with set bonus = 87 * 2 = 174 Mana cost reduction

This can also be seen upon inspection of actual mana costs under different conditions in the table below:

AB Stacks    Base Cost      Cost w/ AP     Cost w/ AP and 4pc    Mana Savings
0             870              957              783                     174
1             2175             2262             2088                    174
2             3480             3567             3393                    174
3             4785             4872             4698                    174
4             6090             6177             6003                    174

Suppose 12 Arcane Blasts are cast during the 15 second duration of Arcane Power:

174 Mana * 12 = 2088 Mana saved during each Arcane Power

Let's convert this to MP5 for an easier way to visualize the bonus:

2088 Mana saved every 2 minutes (typical practical cooldown of Arcane Power) =
2088 Mana / 120 seconds * 5 seconds = 87 Mana per 5 seconds

Following the same calcuations but with Shard of Woe equipped, the result is an even lower 67 MP5.

Conclusion:
To put this in perspective, over a 6 minute fight, 87 MP5 yields 6264 mana. This is enough for one extra stacked Arcane Blast, which would correspond to a dps increase below 1%. But since this is obviously a rough estimate, we don’t run out of mana to begin with, and the mana savings is actually spread out over several Arcane Power usages, the actual dps gained is even lower than this.

Another way of looking at it is by comparison to Mage Armor. Glyphed Mage Armor with a mana pool of 100,000 yields 3600 MP5. The 4-piece represents a meager 2.4% of Mage Armor's mana regeneration.

Overall, the tier 12 4-piece bonus is not strong enough and does not provide nearly the dps increase expected from such bonuses or granted by the 4-piece bonuses of other classes, possibly due to oversight in Arcane Blast's Mana cost calculation and Arcane Power interaction.

Suggestions:

Tweak the numbers of the bonus to make it non-negligible, such as 50% mana cost reduction (yielding 522 Mana savings per Arcane Blast).
Change the mechanics of the bonus to affect base Arcane Blast mana cost so the mana savings propagates through the Arcane Blast debuff mana cost multiplier to provide intended mana savings.
Add another aspect of the bonus to make the entire bonus enticing without affecting the underwhelming mana cost reduction.
Revamp the entire bonus.

If you actually took the time to READ how arcane power works - You'd realize it will reduce the mana cost of ALL spells, not base mana cost as you seem to imply. Thus a max stack arcane blast, will indeed be reduced by 10% of it's cost.
Unless you know, the tooltip for arcane power is broken which for all apparent purposes it is not.

I'd like to shed light on the stupidity and incorrectness of your post, which is typical to typical <Blood legion> morons living in their own little world where not being US #1 is being US #1.

Rësto · 07/12/11, 2:14 PM

Originally Posted by infinitum

Harmony is a self-buff.

Fixed ^^