Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1838

Arphastas · 08/17/11, 2:36 AM

Originally Posted by ildon

Have you tested this or are you just making an assumption? Do hunter/warlock pets gain lust still or do they gain the haste through the new pet stat/buff translation system? Obviously the shadowfiend won't gain the buff if you cast it while you have lust but it might still gain the haste depending. Like I said it's just not easy to test.

I've seen the Heroism/Bloodlust buff on my Shadowfiend's frame, just assuming that it gains it.

Dilfieler · 08/17/11, 3:39 AM

My fellow tanking brothers look at hotfixes for 4.2 16th august we now have 500% threat on abilities instead of 300%

Angeltsud · 08/17/11, 4:54 AM

The hot fix...
So it appears they want to force us to the hit/exp path. Like making SB an ability based on hitting the mob/boss sometimes. I'm pretty confuse to HOW they want to do this but at least I now know that a lot of DPS talent won't be that usefull, like B&T for add tanking if my TC+ShockW keep adds on me where is the goal of B&T and so on.

I don't see the point to the change they will made to veangeance if someone get it...

Probaton · 08/17/11, 5:07 AM

Originally Posted by Angeltsud

The hot fix...
So it appears they want to force us to the hit/exp path. Like making SB an ability based on hitting the mob/boss sometimes. I'm pretty confuse to HOW they want to do this but at least I now know that a lot of DPS talent won't be that usefull, like B&T for add tanking if my TC+ShockW keep adds on me where is the goal of B&T and so on.

I don't see the point to the change they will made to veangeance if someone get it...

I really don't understand in what way the hotfix has anything to do with 'forcing us to the hit/exp path'. Making taunts unmissable (a while back) pretty much proves that Blizzard is fine with our current tack of ignoring hit where possible. If anything the new 500% threat modifier makes missing even less of a deal as our threat should be high enough anyway.

The changes to vengeance probably have something to do with druids and dk's stacking vengeance faster because their mitigation (in the form of absorption shields) was still giving them full vengeance whereas ours (block) was also mitigating our stack-speed. Now fully shielded hits will no longer stack vengeance which should put them back in line with us.

check0790 · 08/17/11, 5:34 AM

I appreciate this hotfix for our protection spec, because in my opinion prot warriors were a bit behind the other 3 tanks regarding tps, and I love it as a fury warrior, who´s constantly outaggroing our tanks in 3 gcd´s without MD, TotT or waiting 20 sec.

But regarding the rest of the blue post in the dev watercooler:
Are we facing a huge change in the way of tanking, so do we have to rotate not between our most threat-worthy abilities but between mitigation abilities?
Maybe every abilities triggers some buff and chaining them in some kind of prio will be the best to avoid damage.
Or they set up dps requirements for bosses so we have to hit them as hard as we can and being aware of encounter mechanics.

Xalex · 08/17/11, 5:55 AM

Hey guys! Long time follower, first timeposting.

I just read on the last posts of this thread that some are using FFB at some point while flying on alysrazor.
It got me quite confused.

Should I replace FB for FFB before switching to Pyro? And if yes, what will be the breakpoint?
Or is it just about keeping the dot up? And in this case trough all the fight or just for the burn phase to add some combustion damages?

I'm at work and won't have time to do the math before the raid so any answer will be appreciated.

Thanks!

Angeltsud · 08/17/11, 5:58 AM

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

That said, we ultimately don’t want tanking to be just standing there soaking boss hits and we would like to have more stats on gear that tanks care about. To solve those challenges, we want to shift more tank mitigation to require active management. We’ll still give all the tanks emergency cooldowns like Shield Wall and Survival Instincts. However, we want to move the shorter cooldowns like Shield Block, Holy Shield and Savage Defense so that they work more like Death Strike

That is what I talk about on my last post about hit/exp

grishaan · 08/17/11, 6:17 AM

It depends. Especially on whether your pet is always on your target or not, because manually activating pet attack abilities causes your pet to switch to your target...

Sirq · 08/17/11, 7:10 AM

Rasgahr,

I believe, and in my experience when I do not tank, that these tanks that lose agro simply haven't their rotation fully under control. The first few weeks of cataclysm I was struggling a lot with AE Tanking. Why? Because I didn't use inquisition(At all.)..

Things that could be an issue for the paladins that are losing their agro in 5mans, is the AS glyph.. hitting 3 mobs is better than just 1, clearly. And since there are quite some casters in the 5mans we currently run, there should not occur a problem of missing AS. When a mob is casting and you toss AS at them, the AS has to hit* because of the interrupt mechanic. Therefor it can't ever fail, something I found out at ascendant council where I had to interrupt Feludius.
*Though needs more testing.

The better gear we get, the less vengeance we produce. But the way a paladin works with mana as a resource, I can't see a problem in that. Spam HoR, keep up Inquisition and outdps your 3 actual dps'rs.

Theres no chance, currenctly, that tankadins should be reforging for hit/exp.

Malevolencia · 08/17/11, 8:46 AM

Can't say I'm liking that change at all, if I wanted a more dk-like way of tanking I'd play a dk... This seems like they want to change every tank to be a dk instead of maintaining the limited variety we have at the moment. Obviously need to wait and see to judge how this works out in the end, but I've been playing and enjoying my warrior for years and this is going to be a fundamental change to how it plays, possibly removing all of the fun for some (and of course potentially making it more fun for others).

As a person who currently reforges for hit/exp in order to do more dps to contribute to a kill, and to get ranked on WoL (since with the exception of Baleroc heroic I don't need better mitigation, I already take less/more stable damage than our druid and dk tanks), I'm a bit sad to see I may need to reduce my dps to focus on survivability more in future. But I guess it will depend on how they do it.

Regarding check0790's claim that warrior tps is behind other tanks, I can't say I've found that to be true at all. As long as you hold aggro the first ~6seconds of a fight (and thus get fed with rage by the mob's initial attacks) you can pump out as much as the other classes (note: my guild doesn't have a prot pala tank, so I am only comparing to druids/dks, our druid Lakortha ranks highly all the time and I can do as much threat as him generally). With the recent change to make recklessness usable in defensive stance, threat issues at the start are pretty much gone now (and there's not really any boss you can't safely open up on with shield block + recklessness up at pull, even Baleroc heroic it's fine on).

For reference, I stance dance to do collosus smash on every shield block (even while I have recklessness up at pull) and have no threat issues at all before this hotfix, the only one with some minor issues was staghelm heroic, where dps have a +100% dmg (and threat buff) which could make threat a bit shaky the first 45seconds if I got a lot of parries. That has now been hotfixed though.

Rammsteinik · 08/17/11, 11:32 AM

I gotta hand it to them though with all the changes they've made to Holy shield they're coming back to the model they had beforehand. Such as HS being kept up by WoG or just using a GCD to hit the damn thing back in WotLK. It's honestly stupid that you can probably look at GC like big Brother from 1984 so that they can ruin the game down to something playable and keep a subscriber base to jsut make improvements that were there a year earlier...

Edit: for constructive purposes, last night seemed a joke for threat where if I took one hit jsut by passing the MT I could catch him threat almost too easily. Hopefully they get this sorted out soon.

Runtime · 08/17/11, 12:06 PM

From what i understood, they might bring rage management into play for warrior tanks as it currently is for the dps specs. Its possible that they will do this by either drastically reducing or getting rid of rage gen from taking damage. They would probably make shield block a higher rage cost and make it more powerful. So in this scenario where rage matters, you would want hit and exp to increase your rage gen so that you could pour it into Shield Block. So more hit/exp=more mitigation.

All in all I think this could be an interesting change for all tanking classes depending how its actually implemented. Currently tanking is only fun to me when I have to move around alot. Taunt swaps dont make for very exciting boss fights. There is a fine balance they will have to hit in terms of difficulty and involvement so that its fun for tank and spanks but not too complex that is difficult when you have alot going on.

MrMonstrosity · 08/17/11, 1:05 PM

Has anyone raid tested a strictly hemo build using a 2.6 MH?

Muspel · 08/17/11, 2:02 PM

If rage management becomes more important, it might also make us use HS/Cleave less, and reduce our damage relative to the other tanks.

Threat will still be trivial thanks to the hotfix, but it's something to consider.

Runtime · 08/17/11, 3:09 PM

A change of this magnitude will most likely come at the next expansion. That said there will be several months of testing and balancing and so im not to worried about tank damage balance. That and all the tank classes, except maybe dks, will be getting an overhaul like this and so there will be a lot of changes with them as well. Id be happy if our rage gen wasnt balanced around getting hit. This would make it easier as a warrior to generate threat on a target not attacking us such as a tank swap on a taunt immune boss.