Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1859

theburd · 09/25/11, 7:22 PM

Keep in mind affliction can soulburn: seed of corruption on cooldown without losing shards, which I imagine will make that 4pc much better than for other specs.

Gilgrissom · 09/25/11, 8:41 PM

As many of you have probably noticed, the T13 set bonuses have been announced (see mmo-champion) and at a first glance, the 2 piece bonus seems rather imba for demonology. Even with current gear, the Doomguard deals about 1.1m to 1.3m damage in the 65 seconds it is active (allthough it usually has an uptime of around 60 seconds). Adding another 45 seconds to the duration would add about 900k damage (45/65 * 1.3m). Over a 6 minute fight (or the six minutes till the next doomguard) that is about 6.1k DPS, while the Doomguard without the bonus is at about 3.6k. As a rough estimate, I would say that the 2 piece set bonus is worth 3k DPS for a 6 minute fight, and closer to 4k DPS for fights between 6 and 10 minutes*.

This seems a rather big DPS gain, and I would assume they are going to nerf the Doomguard (probably by finaly adjusting the way it seems to benefit from mastery about 3 times). Then again, the T12 2-piece bonus for Elemental Shamans gave them a permenanent Fire Elemental which is worth around 3k DPS. So maybe, MAYBE we finally get a set bonus that is worth more than a couple hundred DPS.

On the other hand, the 4-piece bonus seems rather weak for all Warlock specs. Without getting additional Soulshards, the uptime can't exceed 30 seconds in the whole fight. But even assuming an endless supply of Shards, we will end up at 10/45 = 22% Uptime of a 10% damage buff, equalling to 2.2% increased damage. This is obviously not entirely correct if you can line up the Soulburn with another cooldown/proc/bloodlust (and especially DOOMGUARD!), but even then I would be suprised if the damage boost will exceed 1-2% in practice. That would be around 500-1000 DPS, and actually seems pretty much in line with all the 4pc bonuses we have gotten so far.

*This is actually harder to calculate, because the second Doomguard most likely will not benefit from all the buffs the first Doomguard did benefit from. With the current 65 second uptime, the Doomguard is at about 2.1k DPS for a 10 minute fight, so assuming a bit less than a 4k DPS gain seems reasonable.

Skullcan · 09/25/11, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Gilgrissom

On the other hand, the 4-piece bonus seems rather weak for all Warlock specs. Without getting additional Soulshards, the uptime can't exceed 30 seconds in the whole fight.

Affliction can use Soulburn: SoC on Cooldown since the shard is refounded if the explosion is sucessfull, at first glance it looks much better for Affliction spec.

If they don't adjust Doomguard DPS and bonus received from mastery, 2pc will give a HUGE dps bonus for Demon tho.

moupax · 09/25/11, 10:46 PM

On affliction:

Probably a noob question, but I did some head calculations and to do not use Fel Flame is bugging me. I agree that just recasting UA is faster and consumes less mana than 3 Fel flames but on the logic og the original post there is some things missing (or not...)

3x Fel Flame = 18 secs UA + 3x 3183 dmg and costs 3 GCD and 3x1233 mana
That will mean: UA renew + 9549 dmg -3699 mana - ~3sec (GDC)

If I use, according to the original post, this time to recast UA and shadowbolt's, Id have
1.16 sec UA cast + 2.22 sec SB cast = - 1.16s -2.22s -3082mana -1746mana + 8901dmg
That will mean: UA renew + 8901 dmg -4828 mana - 3.38sec (cast > GCD)

Comparing the 2, using Fel Flame looks better... What am I missing here?

Ah, keep in mind that it will be even better if you use 2xFel Flames at a time to keep UA up and don't waste some seconds on the 16 sec limit for UA.

• Zakalwe · 09/26/11, 1:33 AM

I find it very hard to follow your logic/math/whatever that is, but you do seem to be missing the fact that your GCD is longer than 1 second.

Angelic · 09/26/11, 2:47 AM

The incoming 2p bonus hints towards a Doomguard fix for Demonology. You realize Blizzard wouldn't allow Demonology warlocks to use a 1.5 million damage cooldown two times in a fight.

In other words, expect to see some Doomguard related changes for 4.3, and then judge.

netsach · 09/26/11, 4:52 AM

demonology guardian uptime : (45+20+45) / (6*60) = 30.55%
others spec guardian uptime (45+15) (6*60) = 16.66%
i seriously hope they'll keep the specs balanced (and bring the 3rd spec on par with others)

Top86 · 09/26/11, 6:59 AM

Thanks for the math Rallik! That helped put things in perspective.

Duums · 09/26/11, 8:45 AM

Give old T11 4p BACK!

Leländ · 09/26/11, 9:02 AM

Mage Talent, Torment the Weak: Your arcane damage spells deal 6% more damage to snared or slowed targets.

I am starting to see less and less mages spec in to Nether Vortex (2/2 Gives your arcane blast a 100% chance to apply the slow spell to any target it damages if no target is currently effects by slow) for the ability to pick up some movement talents.

Who / what else in the raid puts a continuous snare or slow on the target? or are the mages who do this manually applying slow?

Leland

Senovit · 09/26/11, 9:46 AM

Tanks all have attack speed slows which count towards torment the weak.

Frogmite · 09/26/11, 10:04 AM

It's pretty obvious that they mixed up the timings.

Demo will have a 15 second longer Guardian and Afflicion/Destruction will have a 45 second longer Guardian so the two part is balanced for all specs.

christa · 09/26/11, 1:35 PM

Hi, I am abit confused about 4P bonus for combat.
I would like to know how tier bonuses are working when you have a glyph who is doing similar action.
Have I to understand that AR + 5 sec from AR glyph + 3 sec from 4P bonus or both bonuses are beggining after the initial AR timer?

Thanks in advance.

tinkii · 09/26/11, 1:56 PM

Originally Posted by Pintofbrew

Saying it's useless because you're geared in a way that minimizes it's effectiveness is not correct. Arguably, you could drop a lot of haste for mastery, significantly increasing your mastery and maintain the same GCD-locked status. Only this time you'd be gaining a lot of haste's effect from the set bonus instead of the gear.

You´re absolutely right, i would also say the 2p devalues haste in some kind. Waiting for balance Changes to say more, hopefully they fix something in UH dps, otherwise i see unholy fall behind frost quite heavy.

Let ghul/gargoyle scale with mastery/crit would be one thing.
Let abilitys hit harder so weapondmg matters more would be another.
We´ll see what Blizz is up to, probably nothing...

Blueobelisk · 09/26/11, 3:46 PM

Originally Posted by Leländ

Mage Talent, Torment the Weak: Your arcane damage spells deal 6% more damage to snared or slowed targets.

I am starting to see less and less mages spec in to Nether Vortex (2/2 Gives your arcane blast a 100% chance to apply the slow spell to any target it damages if no target is currently effects by slow) for the ability to pick up some movement talents.

Who / what else in the raid puts a continuous snare or slow on the target? or are the mages who do this manually applying slow?

Leland

Even if you put 1/2 into Nether Vortex you should still almost never have to manually apply Slow.

Slow lasts 14 seconds and if your Arcane Blast is even at a 2 second cast time (which it should hopefully be under), then with seven AB's you have a...94.5% chance to at least get one Nether Vortex Slow in before the Slow debuff timer runs out. Not to mention any Haste buffs you'll get and AB stacks reducing cast time.

I personally keep 2/2 Nether Vortex for the chance that NV-Slow will proc Arcane Missiles during my conservative phase to make it smoother.