Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1863

xetap · 09/30/11, 2:37 AM

Hello guys,

i was wondering...

my english is not that bad. I do understand the following sentence by its word , but i do NOT understand the meaning

"Obliterate if both Frost/Unholy pairs and/or both Death runes are up, or if Killing Machine is procced"

1.Starting the fight with 3 obliterates consumes all runes.
2.upcoming runes - 1 each.
3. now i could obliterate using 1 unholy and 1 frost. leaving 1 deathrune

imho the bold quote above means that i should not do step 3 , but wait until alle 6 runes are up again because there is only ONE pair and not BOTH pairs of frost/unholy up.

and i should never obliterate using 1 frost 1 death or 1 unholy 1 death.

thx for help

CodeNameSly · 09/30/11, 4:41 AM

Originally Posted by xetap

Hello guys,

i was wondering...

my english is not that bad. I do understand the following sentence by its word , but i do NOT understand the meaning

"Obliterate if both Frost/Unholy pairs and/or both Death runes are up, or if Killing Machine is procced"

1.Starting the fight with 3 obliterates consumes all runes.
2.upcoming runes - 1 each.
3. now i could obliterate using 1 unholy and 1 frost. leaving 1 deathrune

imho the bold quote above means that i should not do step 3 , but wait until alle 6 runes are up again because there is only ONE pair and not BOTH pairs of frost/unholy up.

and i should never obliterate using 1 frost 1 death or 1 unholy 1 death.

thx for help

You are reading that line of the priority correctly. However, that does not mean you should never Obliterate with 1F1D or 1U1D. Instead it means that you shouldn't do so if you're either close to RP cap or have a Rime proc available (and Killing Machine isn't up). The reason Obliterate takes higher priority when you have a pair of the same rune type available is so that you can put one of those runes entirely on cooldown (i.e. not yet recharging) and thus make it eligible for Runic Empowerment procs via Frost Strike. Hope that helps.

Syréène · 09/30/11, 4:44 AM

Originally Posted by xetap

imho the bold quote above means that i should not do step 3 , but wait until alle 6 runes are up again because there is only ONE pair and not BOTH pairs of frost/unholy up.

and i should never obliterate using 1 frost 1 death or 1 unholy 1 death.

It might be a bit misunderstandable. The OP merely wants to express that you should never have a situation where more than one rune of each sort has fully recovered, meaning you should always have at least one rune of each sort on cooldown, if not both. And ofc you obliterate using deathrunes as well.

Black_Scorpion29 · 09/30/11, 4:57 AM

hi guys... i have a small stupid question, that i cant understand.

So assassination rogues hit cap is 13% (2/3 Precision), i just have 13% hit on my rogue and i have something like 1082 hit rating, and on this guide it says that is 1332 (13%)... and i can´t get it... its 13% hit or 1332 hit rating???

Ascar · 09/30/11, 5:12 AM

Originally Posted by starbless

Now, looking at available cloak enchants, we have +65 crit, or +23 haste. No other cloak enchants come close.

Using the general stat weights for 2h frost, dw frost, and unholy, the crit comes out ahead.

However, I might argue that any amount of extra haste would outweigh the 65 extra crit.

23 haste might not be a lot of haste, but the gain might help some reach this sweet spot of haste that other posters are talking about.

Here's the general stat weights multiplied into each stat.

stat rating	378 DW	378 2H	391 DW	391 2H
65 crit	75.4	74.75	83.2	83.2
23 haste	33.81	29.67	40.94	33.12

The reason crit is a weak stat for us is because it doesn't provide any additional benefit to our talents like haste (more km proccs & faster rune regeneration) and obl/fs km hits dont profit at all from our crit rating. But still our whitehits, non km obl/fs, hb and diseases can crit and will do double damage. These facts make crit a weak stat but not a completly useless one, so we shouldn't avoid crit at all cost, after all reforging spell hit is in some cases more viable than reforging crit.

Regarding your own statweight calculation the 65 crit enchant isn't just a bit ahead of the 23 haste enchants, so we should use the crit enchant, because it's such a massive amount of rating more than the haste enchant provides.

NetRollTUZ · 09/30/11, 6:54 AM

Originally Posted by Black_Scorpion29

hi guys... i have a small stupid question, that i cant understand.

So assassination rogues hit cap is 13% (2/3 Precision), i just have 13% hit on my rogue and i have something like 1082 hit rating, and on this guide it says that is 1332 (13%)... and i can´t get it... its 13% hit or 1332 hit rating???

This is 13% in spell hit = 1332 hit rating.
Poisons - magic.

Pintofbrew · 09/30/11, 7:39 AM

Crit also doesn't come with haste-cap issues; while it is concievable haste becomes partially worthless during BL due to haste capping, there is no such scenario possible with Crit, meaning the perceived, simulated haste dps gain may be partially compromized.

There is no possible scenario where 23Hs is even half as good as 65C, even for Frost.

kuntas · 09/30/11, 11:55 AM

I've always been a fan of the unholy playstyle, but due to the advantages that frost has brought to the table this expansion and its utility overall in both cata tiers, i had to play frost. my guild finally got another frost dk, so im going back to unholy to enjoy the rest of the tier, im a bit rusty. i was wondering if someone could point out an optimal openning rotation for a fight like baleroc or rag. i have the basics down, prepot, pop army stack up ghoul transform asap, but im wondering if things like popping frenzy for the army are worth while. if i should aim for gargoyle before transform. or vice versa. should i wait out the gargoyle to towards the end of frenzy so i can transform ghoul asap. those can of niches that make the difference between the average and best player. and If possible can it be pointed out mathematically. im not asking for hand holding or begging. simply tips from the pros that stuck with unholy throughout the tiers.

CodeNameSly · 09/30/11, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by _Ikar

4P is definitely better now, but I just don't get why Blizzard doesn't make it BT and MS with e.g 10% and 15% chance to proc respectively (like they did it for dks !) so both fury spec can benefit it equally.

I actually think the benefit will be close to equal. While Arms will proc it more often, they are more likely to be overwriting an active CS. Plus, Arms is slightly behind Fury in DPS as-is and the AP boost in 4.3 will probably stretch that a bit further (as Fury is more AP-dependent than Arms while Arms is more weapon damage-dependent than Fury).

Omedus · 09/30/11, 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by Ascar

The reason crit is a weak stat for us is because it doesn't provide any additional benefit to our talents like haste (more km proccs & faster rune regeneration) and obl/fs km hits dont profit at all from our crit rating. But still our whitehits, non km obl/fs, hb and diseases can crit and will do double damage. These facts make crit a weak stat but not a completly useless one, so we shouldn't avoid crit at all cost, after all reforging spell hit is in some cases more viable than reforging crit.

Regarding your own statweight calculation the 65 crit enchant isn't just a bit ahead of the 23 haste enchants, so we should use the crit enchant, because it's such a massive amount of rating more than the haste enchant provides.

In my current gear, and with there being so much extra hit on gear for a DW Frost Death Knight, I'm assuming it's correct to reforge away the extra hit rather than crit on items (Neck, rep ring, belt). Reforging away the crit you get 92 extra haste (2325 total), but have 9.67% hit. Reforging the hit away instead, I go down to 8.47% hit and gain all the crit, with 2233 haste total. I'm assuming this is correct as the excess hit should be worth nothing to me.

Edit: I also had a question about Heroic Rag and trinkets. I'm using Heroic Heart of Rage and Vessel of Acceleration. Vessel doesn't seem very impressive, I was wondering if the rep trinket would be better for the fight, due to having such a short cd that happens to coordinate with Pillar of Frost, as well as making our Ghoul a lot stronger, not to mention the attack power increase should mean higher burst on Molten Elementals. It just seems like a better option for that fight, but I wasn't sure. I also have a Apparatus is the static Strength with a Haste proc is stronger.

Macar · 09/30/11, 3:12 PM

Originally Posted by CodeNameSly

Not everyone can afford or cares to optimize their character to the point of choosing particular professions they may already have duplicated on other toons. You could as well argue that the spreadsheet should only allow whichever race happens to be the current best.

To be honest, the spreadsheet are for people who try to max their character. So if you don't have the optimum professions, you cannot expect the spreadsheet to be made for you in all aspects.

I myself have Blacksmithing/Mining just for the convenience of being able to get mats on my own. I still use the spreadsheet, but I also realise in this aspect of my character I am not fully optimized for maximum DPS.

Twilightmoons · 09/30/11, 3:53 PM

The new spell effect for our Shadow Bolt has been posted on MMO-Champion here's a link to their youtube video-
Patch 4.3 - Updated Spell Effects - YouTube

CodeNameSly · 09/30/11, 4:38 PM

Originally Posted by Macar

To be honest, the spreadsheet are for people who try to max their character. So if you don't have the optimum professions, you cannot expect the spreadsheet to be made for you in all aspects.

I myself have Blacksmithing/Mining just for the convenience of being able to get mats on my own. I still use the spreadsheet, but I also realise in this aspect of my character I am not fully optimized for maximum DPS.

Right, the spreadsheet is for people who want to max their character. However, they likely want to max it subject to SOME constraints. The difference between Blacksmithing and and Herbalism with respect to DPS is less than between Worgen and Night Elves, though I doubt you'd argue Worgen should be the only allowable race on the spreadsheet.

Muspel · 09/30/11, 9:42 PM

Originally Posted by CodeNameSly

I actually think the benefit will be close to equal. While Arms will proc it more often, they are more likely to be overwriting an active CS. Plus, Arms is slightly behind Fury in DPS as-is and the AP boost in 4.3 will probably stretch that a bit further (as Fury is more AP-dependent than Arms while Arms is more weapon damage-dependent than Fury).

He was talking about SMF versus TG, not Arms vs. Fury.

Brunk · 09/30/11, 10:20 PM

My Profile

I just got a [Crystallized Firestone], just wondering what I should get first. Upgrade my neck piece, thrown weapon, or buy a [Scales of Life] for the upgrade?

Thanks

My Profile