I'd be interested to know as to which simulation tool you used and with which gear set to get the result that mastery was "beating haste hands down". Using simc with gear varying from T11hc to T12 BiS and prioritizing mastery over haste both in terms of reforging and itemization, haste always comes out with a highest stat weight; indeed, the highest output possible listed on the simc website (Simulationcraft Results) is prioritizing haste, with swapping haste for mastery always being a DPS loss.

If a tool that is considered one of the most accurate forms of simulation is suggesting haste is better at a gear level vaguely relevant to current raiding, wouldn't it perhaps be worth mentioning it? Indeed - a quick check on female dwarf lists haste as being better in BiS. What gives?

Slam doesn't cost any rage so you have to add in 2/3 of a heroic strike's damage into the damage as well.

@rh8452:

There is no real movement intense fight in DS.

The movement on morchok is minimal.
Yorsahj is better thanks to black phases regardless
The movement on Zonozz is minimal aswell.
Hagara is the most movement intense fight, yet arcane is arguably already stronger in 10m due to the burnphases and limited amount of tombs. Timing combust in a burnphase barely ever happens.
Ultraxion, cauterize is huge but not neciszrry. And when the dps is higher as arcane i dont see why you'd stick to fire just for cauterize.
Blackhorn is a matter of strategy. The movement isnt that big either.
Spine is already being ran as perma arcane.
Most of the movement in madness is done when there is no dmg done. Alot of people are already running this as arcane aswell actually.

And it's not just about the raw numbers of the spec itself. Arcane tactics for the raid is also pretty big (i dno if you raid w an arc standard in 25, but atleast in 10m you dont).

Nor is it about the "go arcane or get benched" like you state. People who browse these boards do so to maximize their raiding performance. Why would we play a suboptimal spec then, when this entire board is about maximizing your performance.

ok thanks,

so you go for

CS > BT > Slam + Heroic Strike (if rage allows it) > RB

I did import my char to Rawr and did an optimize and Rawr tells me to reforge to 2000+ haste....problem is I am som low on crit, sometimes I aint even get an HS fopr 1-2 minutes

Minifia @ Balnazzar

I did reforge etc to get as close to 1505 now and have much more crit, like 5% more, no clue if that will be better or not

You dont have 2pt13 when im checkin your armory?
Without that you'll be sitting on 2005 haste.
Just check the graphs on p29 post 723. Add 500 haste if you dont have 2pt13.

18% baseline crit still means 33%crit selfbuffed+CM on fireball/pyro. Add raidbuffs, food n flask to that and you're fine really.

No offense but you haven't done a single DS heroic boss on your mage, so I really don't think you have any qualification to state that there is "no movement intense fight in DS".

Every single one of the fights you specified is vastly different on heroic, requiring much more movement, multiple targets (heroic zon'ozz has many adds scattered across the room) or specific raid composition strategy for soaking mechanics (heroic ultraxion puts a debuff on you when you soak hour of twilight preventing you from soaking it again for 2 minutes).

If you were playing fire in your 10-man and nobody was providing the 3% buff, and you were only playing fire for the damage, then playing arcane may now be a better choice, but the most optimal choice remains getting a ret paladin.

If you're in a 25-man raid there is still absolutely no reason to switch to arcane as you will still do more DPS as fire on almost every fight.

It has always been inferior, the extra crit damage outweighs the extra mana.

Probably a stupid question, but I'm trying to use these macros (4.3 Arms PvE Guide - Forums - World of Warcraft) for stance dancing into certain abilities, but have to mash the macro twice in order get it to work. I'm guessing it's because WoW checks the stance requirement for the second ability before the stance switch goes off. Is there any way to work around this, possibly through some sort of microscopic delay, so I only have to click the macro once?

Hello. I'm new here, so it's my first post here.
What do you think about Fire vs Arcane after fire nerf in 4.3.2? Fire will be still the best except Spine?
Anyone do some tests on ptr servers?

Dear Whitefyst, or any who does feel he's able to answer this. I'm having several questions, most of them regarding interaction with weapon procs.

1. Is it worthwhile to stack a Hungerer with an Arrow of Time (From the end time heroic?). FemaleDwarf says yes, it is, but i'm asking your opinion.
2. How do we interact with Kiril, Fury of Beasts? Is it, for instance, worthwile to act as if the proc is a dynamic haste effect, and take advantage of hardcasted aimed shots (If, at least, at lower than 2s cast time?)
3. If we have both kiril, fury of beasts, and Vishanka, Jaws of the Eart - do the two procs together give us a benefit equal to, for instance, the Gurthulak-something weapon for str-melee?
4. How would you say our stat priority is? Some are quite stubborn about crit + haste, and others just go for higher ilvl as long as it has crit on it.
5. Since hunters of all levels read this guide, could you give some comparison numbers? For instance, Dungeon-gear BiS dps, normal-DS biS dps, and heroic-DS BiS dps? It gives you far more of a meaning to 'Am i following this guide correctly, or am i still missing something'?

Some of these questions may seem quite dumb. However, other websites, such as [www.noxxic.com], seem far to simplistic to be considered useful as soon as you've gotten some feeling for the class. Others come from discussions on the wow-europe hunter forums, and yet others come from the fact that i seldom meet other hunters, or at least other hunters that are up to date past T11-normal.