Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1928

zielik · 01/18/12, 4:40 AM

He ment hc ofc.

Sepulcre · 01/18/12, 5:37 AM

Oh okay !

for each sim, I never used the open -> config.txt ... was importing my character from rawr and configuring by hand ...

what a dumb I am, you save me plenty of time, thanks a lot !

dnlk100 · 01/18/12, 6:30 AM

yeah man your only sitting at 15% hit, you need to be at least 17% try that first and see if your dps goes up any

willem11 · 01/18/12, 6:48 AM

On topic of the opening cast-sequence.

Remember pyroblast has a higher crit chance and also puts up the pyroblast debuff on the target. It would be interested to model if this higher crit chance (higher chance for a hot streak and a great combustion right at the start) and putting the pyroblast dot up at the start of the fight is better then the scorch opening.

Pyryte · 01/18/12, 9:56 AM

Originally Posted by willem11

On topic of the opening cast-sequence.

Remember pyroblast has a higher crit chance and also puts up the pyroblast debuff on the target. It would be interested to model if this higher crit chance (higher chance for a hot streak and a great combustion right at the start) and putting the pyroblast dot up at the start of the fight is better then the scorch opening.

Also keep in mind that many fights dont lend themselves to opening with a combustion. I'll go through them briefly fight by fight, all fights are on heroic difficulty.

Morchok: No real deterrant to opening with a combustion here.

Yorsahj: Advisible to hold off on combustion until the first slime phase, on heroic you almost always have a black slime, and combustion/impact helps a tremendous amount with these.

Zonozz: Advisible to wait until first burn phase to combustion, though you may be able to sneak one in super early and have it up for the end of the burn phase.

Hagara: Generally want to wait until feedback phase to combustion, if you combustion at the beginning and get a lightning phase, it will certainly not be up, and if you get frost phase first but kill your crystals quickly, it probably won't be up either.

Ultraxion: Combustion at the start is fine here.

Warmaster Blackhorn: As ranged, you probably want to save your combustion for when the first set of drakes come down. Our group pulls the melee adds over to a drake, so you can get a combustion/impact there.

Spine: No point in using combustion on a corruption, need to wait at least until you roll and get an amalgamation up, but probably want to wait until tendon phase.

Madness: You can combustion at the start here, because it will probably be up again by the time you're in a cataclysm burn phase on his arm/wing.

So out of the 8 fights, only 3 lend themselves viable to opening with a combustion, possibly 4. Lining up combustion with an increased damage phase or a needed burn phase is generally a better use than just spamming it on cooldown.

Pyryte · 01/18/12, 10:03 AM

Also, getting back to our Hagara dicussion. My alt run saw much more success on heroic using the ranged/healers stacking in the middle method. This seems like a better strat for a few reasons:

1. The damage from being inside the bubble is easily healed through, even with only 2 healers.
2. The ranged can dps all crystals, great for multi-dotting and even better for ranged being able to swap to the crystal that needs the most dps so you get through the phase quicker.
3. Hagara only puts the frost debuff on 1 person at a time, it is never up on 2 people at once. Since the only people who actually get negative benefit from it are the people circling the platform (the melee using this strat), if a ranged or healer gets the debuff, you simply don't dispel it and just let it sit on them. This means mroe time one of the melee don't have the buff, so they are free to dps their hearts out without having to worry about dipping into the bubble to get dispelled.

I'm sure the other strategy can work where everyone runs around, but theres no way it can result in more net dps on the crystals, so the phase will last longer, and it also increases the chance of someone dying to frostflake, ice wave, or getting the debuff and not running into the bubble. Essentially, using the ranged/healers stack in the center strategy helps negate the amount of things that can go wrong during the phase, and shortens it by a healthy margin. As long as your healers don't have any problems keeping everyone alive (which they shouldn't, the damage really is pretty easy to manage), this strat seems like a better idea.

KroLeXz · 01/18/12, 10:04 AM

I been pumping my stats with crit, and trying when possible to be in a very close proximity to the boss......4 fireball crit and 2 pyro crit make for one big ignite.

willem11 · 01/18/12, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Pyryte

Also keep in mind that many fights dont lend themselves to opening with a combustion. I'll go through them briefly fight by fight, all fights are on heroic difficulty.

Morchok: No real deterrant to opening with a combustion here.

Yorsahj: Advisible to hold off on combustion until the first slime phase, on heroic you almost always have a black slime, and combustion/impact helps a tremendous amount with these.

Zonozz: Advisible to wait until first burn phase to combustion, though you may be able to sneak one in super early and have it up for the end of the burn phase.

Hagara: Generally want to wait until feedback phase to combustion, if you combustion at the beginning and get a lightning phase, it will certainly not be up, and if you get frost phase first but kill your crystals quickly, it probably won't be up either.

Ultraxion: Combustion at the start is fine here.

Warmaster Blackhorn: As ranged, you probably want to save your combustion for when the first set of drakes come down. Our group pulls the melee adds over to a drake, so you can get a combustion/impact there.

Spine: No point in using combustion on a corruption, need to wait at least until you roll and get an amalgamation up, but probably want to wait until tendon phase.

Madness: You can combustion at the start here, because it will probably be up again by the time you're in a cataclysm burn phase on his arm/wing.

So out of the 8 fights, only 3 lend themselves viable to opening with a combustion, possibly 4. Lining up combustion with an increased damage phase or a needed burn phase is generally a better use than just spamming it on cooldown.

On Murchok there is a very good reason to combust early. If you manage to get a good combustion up before he splits you can spread the combustion to Kohcrum(or whatever his copy is called) the moment he splits.

On Hagara using combustion early, and then spreading the second combustion to the icetombs works fine. Im quite sure combustion on 6 icetombs gives you more damage then a double-sized single target combustion during feedback.

Those are the only fights I have experienced on HC so far.

Pyryte · 01/18/12, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by willem11

On Murchok there is a very good reason to combust early. If you manage to get a good combustion up before he splits you can spread the combustion to Kohcrum(or whatever his copy is called) the moment he splits.

On Hagara using combustion early, and then spreading the second combustion to the icetombs works fine. Im quite sure combustion on 6 icetombs gives you more damage then a double-sized single target combustion during feedback.

Those are the only fights I have experienced on HC so far.

If you read correctly, I said there is no deterrant to opening with a combustion on Morchok. Not that there wasn't any reason too. I disagree with you about hagara though. If you get a lightning phase, it still won't be up by the time the ice tombs come out. And if you'd read previous pages on hagara combustion dicussion, the maximum amount of dps is gained by combusting at the end or right after feedback falls off, using the feedback ignite in your combustion, then spreading it to tombs. So you have a 50% chance that it will be up, and a 50% chance that it won't be up. Given that the damage done by combustion at the beginning of the fight probably won't be the difference in the fight, I'd advise to wait for the first feedback phase.

About morchok, I agree you can impact it off, but you have to have an impact ready when he splits, they are only in range of each other for about .5 seconds.

Pyryte · 01/18/12, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by KroLeXz

I been pumping my stats with crit, and trying when possible to be in a very close proximity to the boss......4 fireball crit and 2 pyro crit make for one big ignite.

How could you possibly get 4 fireball crits and 2 pyro crits into 1 ignite? I thought that the ignite only rolled for the duration of the ignite that was caused by the crit. For instance, you fireball crit, ignite procs, fireball crit rolls that ignite 2 seconds later, then 2 seconds later the initial fireball crit drops off the ignite and you're left with the ignite from the last fireball crit.

Is this how it works, or can you constantly roll ignite bigger and bigger?

rh8452 · 01/18/12, 11:40 AM

I've never had combustion not be up for tombs on Hagara if lightning phase was first, though it's close. You should be fine if you combustion with 4-5 2pc stacks, especially in 25-man where the phase usually lasts 30 seconds at least.

On our last kill I used it for feedback near the end as good RNG had me with a 90K ignite to use it with, there's no way anyone should gamble that they won't get put in a tomb / will get a good ignite / impact to hit tombs with compared to having a huge ignite from feedback to use it on. If you have a gigantic ignite during feedback, combustion.

You -cannot- impact a feedback-buffed combustion onto tombs. Even if you combustion at the last possible moment, you're gambling that you won't get put in a tomb yourself, and even then you're only going to get 1, maybe 2 ticks of it impacted onto them at most.

Pyryte · 01/18/12, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by rh8452

I've never had combustion not be up for tombs on Hagara if lightning phase was first, though it's close. You should be fine if you combustion with 4-5 2pc stacks, especially in 25-man where the phase usually lasts 30 seconds at least.

On our last kill I used it for feedback near the end as good RNG had me with a 90K ignite to use it with, there's no way anyone should gamble that they won't get put in a tomb / will get a good ignite / impact to hit tombs with compared to having a huge ignite from feedback to use it on. If you have a gigantic ignite during feedback, combustion.

You -cannot- impact a feedback-buffed combustion onto tombs. Even if you combustion at the last possible moment, you're gambling that you won't get put in a tomb yourself, and even then you're only going to get 1, maybe 2 ticks of it impacted onto them at most.

I'm not saying you can impact a feedback buffed combustion itself. i'm talking about the ignite from feedback. You can wait until after the feedback phase is over and then combustion with the feedback ignite still rolling, then impact that onto tombs. As long as you combustion with that feedbacked ignite you still gain the dps from it, even if you get tombed, you still have a very good combustion ticking, and if you don't get tombed you can impact it to them for 3 ticks. I have a WoL of me doing that exact thing. I'll dig it up once I get home from work. I combusted 2 seconds after feedback fell off, using the feedbacked ignite, it provided a huge combustion and then I impacted it to the tombs and got 3 ticks of it on them.

If lightning phase is first, your combustion will be up for tombs, but not up in time for a feedbacked ignite combustion. If you have logs to support your claim I'd like to see them.

EDIT: You're saying that combustion will be up for tombs, but then you're saying that you should use combustion during feedback, so it would have to be up for feedback. Regardless the best way to use combustion is to combust that feedbacked ignite a couple seconds after feedback is off so you can impact it to tombs if you dont get tombed and get 2-3 ticks on the tombs.

Also, in my 25 man heroic hagara kills our lightning phase lasts about 19-21 seconds, not 30. Not sure how you guys handle the conduits but we use a plus sign and once that add dies it takes about 5-6 seconds for all of them to activate.

Deathgrowl · 01/18/12, 12:36 PM

I am swinging 2x normal Gurthalaks for my TG. I have both normal versions of Ataraxis, Cudgel of the Warmaster and Experimental Specimen Slicer in my bags. When I use Landsoul's spreadsheet there really isn't huge DPS difference, 0.31% difference when using the mace or axe. My raid DPS is decent not where I would want it though. By using the same weapon in MH and OH am I gimping my tentacle procs? Would I be better served swinging one normal and one LFR to benefit for more procs, and would this increase in procs really be a game breaking difference in my current DPS?

Thanks for reading this and any constructive comments you may make.

Pyryte · 01/18/12, 1:25 PM

I certainly do, I actually did Alys last night and got some beefy ignites and ended up with 150k dps without impacting combustion to the adds. I guess I'll tear through some logs to see how much ignites are ticking for after multiple crits, unfortunately the times you get crit after crit after crit are few and far between. I guess the easiest place to find information would be when a fireball crits, followed by a pyro crit, and then another fireball crit, and another pyro crit, and see if they all roll into the ignite.

Esarael · 01/18/12, 1:29 PM

They may get munched, because Fireball and Pyroblast have the same travel times and then this means both might be ''critting'' at the same time on the target.