12/12/12, 10:22 PM
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#29832
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Rogue
Caelestrasz
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Originally Posted by metzli
Can you post some logs on this? I'd like to see if your envenom uptime is actually better or not than mine. And how many fewer mutilates that gives you over the fight.
Edit: I looked up a few of your logs through wow-heroes and your envenom uptime for the most part is mediocre at best. You lose DPE on envenom by doing 4 CP envenoms, as well as have less uptime per finisher. So the only way it'd be remotely viable to do the rotation your way is if you managed to get your envenom uptime way higher than the conventional rotation, which is not the case.
I will grant you that the whole "pool to 80 before envenom" idea is just wrong, it was meant for cata, but pooling a bit before envenom is right, it is just a much smaller number than that.
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Originally Posted by Schmoopy
Why with anticipation would you want to 4 point envenom? I am trying to wrap my head around the logic and this is the best I can get:
With 5 point envenoms, 20 combo points gets you 4 finishers and 24 seconds of envenom uptime (1 + 5 sec each).
With 4 point envenoms, 20 combo points gets you 5 finishers and 25 seconds of envenom uptime (1 + 4 sec each).
So the extra damage from that 5th finisher at 4 combo points plus the extra second of envenom uptime has to be worth more dps than:
The damage lost on the first 4 finishers which were done at 4 pts rather than 5.
The dps value of the extra energy used in casting an extra finisher.
I find this hard to believe, but do not have the tools to investigate further at work. However, if this is the case then why at < 35% would you stop doing 4 pt finishers. It doesn't seem to matter what your combo point generator is in this scenario.
Minor pet peeve: Why make the statement that you are willing to post logs rather than doing so from the start?
Edit: Metzli beat me to the punch on this one. Can you share the logs you found metzli? I'd like to take a look as well. Nvm found em.
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Originally Posted by Aldriana
Just to clear up a bit of misinformation that seems to circulate around the forums: there is no inherent benefit to pooling. Pooling to 85 energy (or any other amount short of cap) before you Mutilate is 100% equivalent to Mutilating the second you have enough energy for the move. There is no magic level of energy that you want to always pool to.
The advantage of pooling is and always has been that it allows you to adjust the timing on your moves to be more advantageous. The benefit is entirely in terms of increasing Envenom uptime by spacing them out more, spending more energy while you have cooldowns or other buffs up, minimizing rupture downtime, and so on.
Hence, advise like "if your previous envenom has not dropped wait until it does or until your energy is in danger of capping before casting the next one" will increase DPS. Advice like "go into Shadow Blades/Vendetta with high (but uncapped) energy" will increase your DPS. Advice like "try to have enough energy that you will be able to cast two Mutilates during the buff before casting Envenom" will increase your DPS. But any recommendation of the form "always pool to X energy before casting Y" is going to be wrong.
I will also note, for the record, that there is nothing you can do to optimize your cycle that will increase your DPS by 10k unless you were doing things wrong to start with. That is: while the generally recommended cycle on these forums may not be perfect, its provably not 10k worse than perfect. If you're seeing a 10k improvement purely through cycle adjustments you've made, one of two things is happening:
1) RNG
2) You're better at playing your "new" cycle than you were the old one, such that you're letting energy/CP cap less, wasting less energy/CP, etc.
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Originally Posted by metzli
As far as an optimal long duration AoE rotation goes, what I have found to be very effective is essentially our normal rotation, but using FoK as a builder and maintaining 2-3 ruptures (depending on your ability to do so) while getting as much envenom uptime as you can manage. Maintaining a minimum of 2 ruptures takes priority over envenom uptime. Though someone with more testing / logs on how valid 2 ruptures VS more envenoms for AoE is would be helpful.
Obviously if you are switching this much, you should have a plan as to how to carry out any primary duties you may have (such as kicking, CC'ing, etc.).
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Sorry for the late reply, I was looking at my post, and I do apologize if I come across as a bit uninformative. I will say that when I wrote it, it was 12am, and I was getting a bit punchy with the keys and words. I am currently home on lunch right now, but I will expand a bit more behind my reasoning/theory later tonight.
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