Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 1995

Havoc12 · 01/17/13, 8:58 PM

Actually you couldn't be more wrong. The proc haste from PWS is very very useful to disc, since you can use it to push more spells into a breakpoint and you can chain lots of instants with it when moving.

Borrowed time is a very big part of PWS throughput and an extremely useful source of haste from disc. If you don't htink its exciting you are not using it right.

The changes are patently stupid. They just nerfed PoH by 40% or more for disc depending on mastery.... They really just killed disc for 25man. There is barely any point in casting PoH unless you have inner focus.

Worst of all they just leave us with 15s PWS and 1min CD 15s duration spirit shell as our main bubbles.

I really don't know what they are thinking.

They now expect you to be spamming PWS a LOT, which means mastery is again the way to go and crit is a total waste of stats. You won't be casting PoH except with spirit shell ever. It just heals too little compared with any other spell frankly without the aegis and it is a slow party limited heal. PWS and roll penance + instants will now become the only viable way to heal.

Here are the numbers taken directly from the tooltip in game (completely unbuffed):

With 42.73% mastery, 9.09% crit

PoH = 29073 per person and PWS = 92689.

PoH HPS = 29073*(1+0.0909*2.4273)*2 = 70 975 HPS

PWS = 61 790, but PWS also has borrowed time and when used right zero overheal. With fully raid buffed values of

60% mastery, 14.09% crit

PWS = 69 266

PoH = 79 447

Now taking into account borrowed time:

PWS = 79656

PWS/PoH 1:1 spam = 82 894k.

This of course assumes zero overheal and full usage of all aegis, which is nonsensical. With the lowest realistic averages of 15% overheal for PoH and at least 20% loss of aegis in any situation where you don't have constant raid wide ticking damage, PWS spam is better HPS than PoH and more absorb then spirit shell/PoH.

More importantly this assumes constant damage so you can get your aegis absorbed, which is by no means a given. It is hard to get aegis absorbed completely even now when you can control it. With random aegis on crits it will be impossible, so you will get quite a lot of your aegis being useless. Since spirit shell is also massively nerfed, you will want to cast PWS even when spirit shell is active to get borrowed time.

More importantly do you notice something. I can barely break 90k HPS with these values where as holy I can easily hit 130k. Yes the nerf is that big. Unless every single boss has a big damage buff so disc can spam atonement our sustained HPS will be lowered by 40% and in most encounters it will be lowered even more dramatically, because without blanket absorbs we have nothing that can compete with the blanket raid heals from other classes. Worse of all, will barely be better than paladins for spamming absorbs.

Disc will be worse off than it was at the start of MoP. We will have lower HPS than anyone else, we will not have the utility of being able to roll absorbs anymore, and thanks to the massive spirit shell nerf to single target heals we won't be such strong tank healers anymore.

Everyone needs to get into the official forums and tell blizzard that they are being completely stupid and they will make disc not viable yet again.

Unfortunately blizzard and a good chunk of the community seems to think that absorbs are more useful than high HPS. This is just not true. If absorbs are important in an encounter then it will not be healable without disc and you will just HAVE to have a disc priests there whether you like it or not. If they are not essential then it is better to take healers who can do higher HPS.

I really hope that is not the final patch notes, because if it is, never mind what we will gear as disc, because we won't be playing disc at all.

Vetoh · 01/19/13, 3:31 AM

Is there anything I missing right now? Shadowcraft tells me to get less expertise. IN the past I tried to get 2551 for hit and exp. What is the better way to go?

Egészségére · 01/19/13, 10:11 AM

2H-stats:

Hey! in your frontpage guide you say that windwalkers using 2handers should prio crit over haste.
however when i run simcraft it gives me these stats (normalized):

agility: 1
haste: 0.53
crit: 0.41
mastery: 0.34

So i should actually gem haste if i was to follow these results, which is roughly the same each time i run a sim.
I do noticable more dmg on a dummy when reforged to crit.
Could simcraft be wrong?

this is my monk btw:
Tenzim @ Azuremyst - Community - World of Warcraft

merlinjo · 01/21/13, 5:53 AM

You're lucky, that means that there is a room for improvement. I on the other hand have different problem, it sims my char to be doing 101k dps, and I'm doing up to 110k single target. Unfortunately I cannot sim my rotation since I don't know if it's even possible in simcraft

But I'm most certain it can be improved even more.

Cloudio · 01/21/13, 7:17 AM

Question, would be dropping T14 4 set bonus for getting higher stats from various gear a gain or a total loss for long ( approx 10 min encounter ) or short encounters ( approx 5 min encounters ) ?

nicocba · 01/21/13, 9:50 AM

Which is currently the shot priority after i've done my full openning rotation?

I've been doing some attempts at protectors (sadly doesn't have logs) and doing great on boss openning (around 140k with prepot) but then my dps keep going down to around 70k dps.

With my current gear simcraft emulates 85k dps, I'm fully gemmed and enchanted so I think i'm doing a pretty bad rotation.

Here's my armory
Oram @ Ragnaros - Community - World of Warcraft

Also, here are a log from our group tries on elegon, I did not prepot so I know my dps can be something better but still losing much of it after the openning

Dashboard - 16-01 23:40 - Vanquishment - World of Logs

Sorry about my english

BentBlyant · 01/23/13, 8:29 PM

Originally Posted by Balhale

MMO-C has the ret 4pc changed back in the upcoming build but it's still at 40%. Hopefully Blizz balances it now before release and we don't get a nerf in the middle of the tier like with the current 4pc.

Is it too strong at 40% would you say?

aphelion · 01/24/13, 6:16 AM

Any chance we can get a comparison of 2h weapons? Debating whether or not the amount of strength lost from equipping heroic Starshatter is worth the upgrade in damage range vs. normal Shin'ka, both fully upgraded. Would be nice to have a 2h comparison chart to match for those who use 2hers.

kouby · 01/24/13, 7:17 AM

Hey, I was wondering, as probably a lot more people are going to be switching back to holy for 5.2, or at least on some fights I guess, wouldn't it be time to organize some sort of mass protest at Blizzard HQ to remove those freaking chakras? or at least lower the cooldown on them, or do something, I don't know, anything but "tentative stance dancing" with 30sec cooldowns.

If it were up to me I'd more or less revert Holy to WotLK gameplay-style, but I guess I'd give the spec a try even if they left the current chakras but at least brought the cooldown down to something remotely reasonable like 8-10 seconds.

Thoughts? Or has this already been overly debated?

Skip9824 · 01/24/13, 11:02 AM

Trying to decide on talents/build(stack stam, haste, mastery, avoidance, etc) for heroic Sha 25. Would love any input you may have. Our other tanks seem to be focusing on avoidance/stam, not sure what we should be doing as paladins.

jack3ss · 01/24/13, 11:42 AM

how much dps are you actually dealing to a training dummy ?
with bis, 490 gear or 480 gear?
is there a kind of a list?
i am training my rotation and it would be nice to have a relation, cause simcraft is calculating with soul reaper army of the dead etc...

Hiddendagger · 01/24/13, 12:58 PM

I got some questions concerning weapons of choice. I got Hc fist weapon from garajal x2, normal Sha touched fist weapon and a normal spiritsever. Atm i'm using The Hc wep in mh and sha touched fist wep in oh. Am i right on this one or should i try to swap anything out?

koaschten · 01/24/13, 3:45 PM

How about trying Hiddendagger @ Stormreaver-EU - ShadowCraft ?

Warstorms · 01/25/13, 10:48 AM

looks like i need a new trinket then

Elam · 01/26/13, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Whitefyst

Sorry, I have not said anything yet, but I usually do not get too excited about proposed changes on PTR until they have been out there for a while or unless we are close to the patch and have a good idea the change willl exist in the patch. However, I did talk a little about the change in the Simple Question forum since a direct question was asked.

Since the change is still preliminary in my mind, I have not done a detailed analysis yet, but here is what I think about the proposed change of reducing the base cast time of AI from 2.9s to 2.5s. Currently in T14 gear, the cut off where casting AI instead of AS as the focus dump is worthwhile is around 1.3 to 1.4s cast time. I still need to evaluate when we get closer to the patch and see the gear whether the cut off point will be the same. I am hoping that with AI scaling realtive to AS that it will become a little higher.

Even is the cut off point for using AI does not increase, the reduced AI cast time appears like it will make AI both more usuable and usable more often. Below is a table of haste levels needed to make the cutoff points under different scenarios.

Haste from gear needed to meet AI use points with a 2.5s AI base cast time

Scenario	1.4s	1.3s
T14 4P Unhasted	29.87%	39.86%
T14 4P BL	0%	7.58%
T14 4P RF	0%	0%
Unhasted	41.16%	52.02%
BL	8.59%	16.94%
RF	0.83%	8.59%

As can be seen, while we still have the T14 4P and using the recommended at least 9.09% haste from gear, using AI as the focus dump is beneficial now not only just during RFs in the CA phase, but during all RFs and even BL. Note that during BL that the AI cast is already below the 1.4s cut off without any haste from gear at 1.398s. The AI cast time is naturally below the 1.3s cut off during RF without any haste from gear.

Once we lose the T14 4P, more haste is required to make using AI an option; however, with the at least 9.09% haste from gear, AI is recommended for use during any RF since the cast time will be below 1.3s and is probably worthwhile to use during BL since the cast time is below 1.4s. I assume that with gear scaling that the cut off will rise a little and be closer or over 1.4s, such that it will be beneficial to use AI during BL outside the CA phase.

What still needs to be evaluated is whether it is still maximum DPS for MMs to stack both RF and BL during the CA phase or whether it is better to have BL outside the CA phase to allow more AIs. I am anticipating that still stacking them during the CA phase will be best, but I am not certain on that.

Regardless, this change will make it worthwhile to cast AI more often. It helps that the T15 4P will proc off either of the MM focus dumps. If we are using AI more often, then I agree its beneficial to use the AI glyph in most situations.

Just to make sure since I didn't see it mentioned in the post, do these numbers include the 10% ranged haste buff?